No

It is interesting for everyone that precisely there where national identity is determined most loudly and sustainably by the idea of democracy that segregation is strongest. Of course, segregation means that one group enjoys advantages over the other, including educational advantages.

The isolated education for ethnic, language and racial groups allows to keep their culture and self-identification. However it prevents socialization and integration into society.

Thank you Hein and Andrey. I assume there are advantages flowing from it, despite its limitations in terms of individual development. Perhaps it offers the best path to a decent education under the circumstances?

NOCK

Yes, under certain circumstances. There are times (eras) when segregation can provide a rounded education and even enhance it. For some girls in the 1950s and 1960s in the US, "all-girls" and "all-boys" schools offered the same core of courses in an environment unencumbered by gender differences in power-over one sex, the instructor's known preferences in that era to favour boys over girls when both have hands raised, and the isues with both, particularly boys and self-esteem when hormones rage and they cannot control their bodies (pimples, changes in voice, sexual feelings). Girls definitely got better educations in same-sex schools at the time and so did boys. I cannot speak for how this affects a person of visible difference from the majority (colour, disability, etc), but suspect if the school is dedicated to sound education and has good funding, AND if the students go there by choice, not by being restricted from a mixed environment, the education should be the same or better. For girls/women, the importance of developing a strong camaraderie is definitely needed. I went to an all-girls nursing school in the 1960s - best learning experience ever for the openness, high ed demands, teamwork.Thanks for the interesting question you posed here.

Thanks for that Sharon.

NOCK

Christopher, I was involved in interviewing for a study by Rutgers U School of Public Health - 1980s. - on teen male introverts and extroverts narrating their experiences of normal body changes. Parents also interviewed. The unpredictability of voice changes, pimples, spurts in growth, clothes not fitting, self-consciousness, sexual feelings, etc - VERY hard on boys in mixed gender schools - hard to the point of causing depression, insecurity and suickdal ideation owing from lack of control in front of girls. Had to stop one interview to get immediate intervention with one solid suicide plan. Parents who were introverted were more attuned to what was happening. The study did not cover girls. Good luck with your research!

It is not compatible. Segregation is a consequence of the dominant values ​​of society, in which diverse actors press and use their economic, political, cultural power, among others, to impose those values.

In the academic field to design institutions of higher education, curricula, curriculum and programs, we use models of "curricular planning" where the most important variables of the teaching-learning processes are represented, for example, the characteristics of the responsible training institution, the educational model, the aims, values, ideals, profiles of the teaching staff, support staff, administrative staff, classrooms, laboratories, equipment, materials, the actors, teaching process, learning, student entry and exit profiles, identification of forces that influence and / or determine the achievement of objectives, goals and strategies, linkage with other sectors of society, and monitoring, evaluation and control of each variable involved over time. Two extremes are distinguished.

On the one hand, the educational institution can represent and / or have commitments with sectors that have ideological positions, economic, political, cultural and ethical resources that inhibit them, from their planning, the inclusion of those who have less. The other extreme is also represented by the planning of institutions of higher education, the interests and ideological load that can bias and limit their educational processes by not including and not taking into account their ideologies, thoughts, styles of participation, decision-making and ways of life.

When we analyze these processes, let's try to ignore the naive, abstract and absolutist positions that only perpetuate the access gap to higher education institutions and the bias of their programs between those who have greater opportunities and those who have very diminished or are simply different from the dominant social values.

Best regards

Ma. Dolores Viga and Selvia María Fierro

Thbank for your detailed responses.

NOCK

I think that in democratic societies since the time of the First World War, more than 100 years of experience have been gained with the problem of "segregation and integration". As far as the problem of education is concerned, sensible solutions also depend on the strength of the public education system, which naturally has the task of social integration (in addition to individual knowledge acquisition and qualification). This task of social integration is important in liberal democracy. With other words: a highly educated elite class should not reproduce itself, completely fseparated rom the "stupid" people (this was the case in the German Empire). It is just as important for immigration societies as Canada, the USA, and in Europe, Germany among others. Immigrants are expected to accept the national and cultural foundations of the country they come to. The fact that they should not lose their cultural and religious ties is part of the tolerance of liberal democracy, especially in the private sector, which is protected by the state. But there have also been problematic developments: The more liberal the better clans, widely ramified extended families can settle down, who by no means want to serve the general public, but only themselves - with legally problematic methods

In addition:

In Central Europe in our days we have to consider two borderline cases in which these balances of identity between own educative and social life on the one hand, social integration on the other, get into difficulties: The attempt to integrate disabled children into the general school system from the outset and to close special schools for the disabled may be a good idea, but is far too little prepared. To integrate disabled children into the general school system in order to free them from "isolation" is in part an ordeal for some children. And even more so for the teachers. Here better solutions must be proposed, which of course cost money.

But there is also another side to the problem of "isolation - integration": some immigrant ethnic groups from cultures where, for example, equality of girls in education is unknown, or groups where extreme religious-political behavior patterns prevail, show no willingness to identify with the political identity of the country they came to. Here, social isolation is desired from the outset. And if the birth rate of such groups is considerably higher than that of all other groups, then there is a danger of long-term displacement instead of integration. In the long term, social participation is probably unthinkable without promoting the willingness to integrate via general educational institutions, especially the public school. Successfull "Integration" doesn't hurt ethnic or religious bindings, It is a willingness to respect the values of the society in which we live.

Yes, you're raising all the difficult issues now, thank you all. I read a nice story in my morning paper which touches on some of these issues. A young child, about 8 years old, was writing invitations for her birthday party. She decided she would invite everyone in her class. When she'd finished them her mother expressed her pleasure that her daughter had invited a disabled child to the party. To which her daughter responded "well, she's in my class". Certainly, diversity helps promote inclusion.

NOCK

sorprende il quesito - se la segregazione possa agevolare un buon livello di istruzione;

ogni risposta che fosse data nell'ambito di una cultura pedagogica riuscirebbe differenziata dalle considerazioni in base alle quali si elaborano le strategie: se il pedagogista ha una visione spiritualistica o materialistica o dialettica o biologistica e così via - ne conseguiranno soluzioni differenziate.

Tali diverse soluzioni non sono da intendersi come una garanzia di atteggiamento liberale, ma come il fallimento di quei modelli pedagogici basati sulla contrapposizione tra adulto e minore, tra in segnante e allievo.

Sarebbe ora di scoprire e valorizzare una "via etnografica all'educazione" - soprattutto negli USA dove hanno operato Luise e George Spindler.

La diversidad, el entendimiento, la integración hace la verdadera educación sea completa

Any kind of segregation must be abolished from any environment or educational proposal. The first heart transplant was performed by a black ambidextrous, but because he is black he can not receive the congratulations for his extraordinary accomplishment - this happened in South Africa and they are already gone half a century.

Good point. Now in Western Canada, we have the curse of the South African doctors immigrating here. Discrimination die not get left behind in South Africa. A social cancer has been brought to us (racism, heterosexism, sexism) and a surprising openness to disclosing the belief in euthanasia to save on health care costs for those populations.

I abhor any kind of discrimination.

Can segregation provide full and complete higher education?

Never and under no circumstances. Let us remember that the spirit of an age is measured not only by educational excellence, but mainly by the spread of this education reaching the maximum of the population. That said in a globalized world it is impossible to consider the completeness and excellence of higher education if it is exclusive of one class and excluding others. Segregating means giving up valuable knowledge for the construction of a local and global education. They mean irreparable losses of knowledge and talent.