I feel even today, face to face interactions are better than online discussions. It is more because of the instant feed backs, which we can read from gestures and body language, better problem solving, more personal touch, counseling, more confidence on the part of students, advantages are many ! Not that e learning is not efficient but it depends on too many factors which may not be in our control !! E learning of course has its own advantages, which can never be compared with face to face interactions ! The biggest being exchange of thoughts, irrespective of distance, time, age, culture, creed etc etc !

Hello colleagues -

Since this very discussion forum is an example of asynchronous text-based discussion we can hardly look at this as 'the future' as this type of media and 'Not Live' discussion has been going on as long as there has been telecommunication (e.g. the telegraph).

I think a better way forward in this discussion is to ask what is a good mix or blend to a face-to-face session to make the most of an online learning experience?

I have been dabbling with the PAP (Pre-At-Post) Model to:

> Have an online taster

> Conduct the face-to-face session

> Continue the debate with a good online session.

The 'Follow-up' stage may well be in real-time with web video conferencing. (Which can be recorded too).

I'm happy to share my project experiences. See http://abasiel.wordpress.com

or email me [email protected]

yours

Dr Anthony 'Skip' Basiel

I love asynchronous discussion forums in my own online learning environments, but I don't think they are the future. Apart from resources (documents, slideshows, videos), there is also synchronous chat which can be useful when you have multiple campuses running the same course. That will aid collaboration.

There are also games that could be included; either ones designed by your team or those available free online. Tests can also be put in your learning environment. I have used formal tests as well as quizzes to check that the students have completed the required readings.

I don't think that the online environement is just a digital version of what we do in the traditional classroom. Rather it should add to the learning. How to do that is the million dollar question, but you should start with your curriculum and required outcomes and then see what's available to help you get to those goals.

Thank you for your comments so far. I do realise that the "future" has been around for a while I completed a correspondence course many years ago and that was through the postal system but as I read through your answers it appears that you see asynchronous discussion as a part of a blended course rather than a separate complete entity. In many courses, the teacher and the student never meet face to face and these courses are becoming ever more mainstream, in our digital world. In MOOCs there may be tens of thousands of students “attending” the same class. The teacher merely provides the course materials and the students discuss the materials through asynchronous message boards before writing the assignments which are then peer marked.

Hi Gary,

Interesting question. The timing and support of teachers in fully online distance education courses is of course a "hot" topic, and when and how to intervene and stimulate discussions has been debated for years. My own research in discussion forums in fully online courses indicates that with limited teacher presence, primarily intrinsically motivated students do extremely well in building discourse and higher cognitive content. However, just "increasing" teacher presence with 10% to get all participants to contribute is not as straightforward as initially thought. For example, in the article published in Computers & Education, even a small change in the scaffolding process of discussion forums switched the interactions from intrinsically to extrinsically motivated students, though the overall amount and quality of discourse was lower in comparison to lower teacher presence. The research of one of my PhD students (Bas Giesbers) actually indicates that a "more modern" design with synchronous videoconferencing added to discussion forums did not automatically lead to an improved learning satisfaction and learning performance in comparison to "old school" discussion forums. If his findings are replicated in our contexts, perhaps there is still plenty of mileage in discussion forums...

Bart

I think this MOOC style of learning based around asynchronous discussion is indeed the future for mature adult learners who are seeking to extend their established professional base. I don't think it is sufficient to replace young adult education for entry to the professional/academic world.

I also think it's appeal is highly dependent on the subject - it seems most of the popular MOOCS are in subjects related to computer science (where the students quite like to study alone) or education (where the students quite like to discuss via the written word)

Hello colleagues,

My experience says me that blended learning is more useful than asynchronous learning only.

Hi, Gary!

I agree with the response from Rob.

I wanted to elaborate a model to examine the personal factors and characteristics of E-learning courses that interfere, positively or negatively, with the participants of online discussion forums within a social learning process, allowing decision-making in relation to the maintenance of configuration of courses to increase student participation and their social interactions.

Thus, my goal is to present a quantitative method of assessment, considering the individual characteristics of students, leading to an improved quality of distance education courses by enhancing social presence.

New information and communication technologies may be useful for providing more in-depth knowledge to students in many ways, whether through online multimedia educational material, or through online debates with colleagues, teachers and other area professionals in a synchronous or asynchronous manner.

From this perspective, the learning process can be considered a form of social collaboration and this process is mediated by language through face-to-face interaction and other means of communication (books, videos, Internet, etc.). As a catalyzing force, language's mediating role in learning is fundamental and, thus, discourse offers more fitting means for learning than learning on one's own.

I agree that blended is the way to go.

I have used asynchronous in many courses in education and now in graduate medical education. The key decision to be made is what is the final outcome you want the students to have. Once you know that you can decide what is the best way to help the learners reach that objective. It might be asynchronous it might not. The course I teach is 95% asynchronous but once a week we have an online meeting. Usually, this turns into an online chat even if students have access to a microphone they choose to use the chat function because they can develop questions while others are typing.

In the reality course with teach blended is more useful than asynchronous only, under my experience

What is the role for student choice in all of this? Current technology to me doesn't mean that students have to choose one form of interaction. Wouldn't a more ideal system be one in which students can undergo a profile process about the ways in which they learn best and then select from a menu of options be they synchronous, asynchronous, blended, etc.? I'm always wary of a one size fits all approach. Why not match instruction to the needs and skills of students? Accessibility of courses is an important consideration as well for learning with disabilities.

I did not have the scenario that Gary subsequently described:

"...tens of thousands of students “attending” the same class. The teacher merely provides the course materials and the students discuss the materials through asynchronous message boards before writing the assignments which are then peer marked."

Face to face is almost impossible in this circumstance but the "blend" mentioned by many does not necessarily have to include F2F; it might be a blend of asynchronous with synchronous (chat), or some videos, or some quizzes, or all of the above. If there are a number of activities that are available then the students can choose which best suits their learning style. Yes, more effort to build the area but it does accomodate everyone!

Taking students into an online environment is much like taking young kids shopping (Xmas time memories!!). If the kids aren't interested they become monsters. Thus if the students in the online environment are not captivated by something that they see there, then they will not participate fully. A teacher presence is one way to achieve that but there are sticks and carrots. Provide an incentive for the students to engage in the course material rather than just dump the material and expect the students to read and discuss. I have awarded small prizes for the students who contributed most to the online discussion - be careful to not only consider quantity of posts because then you will get hundreds of 'good comment' posts from students. I had previously mentioned games - put the students in groups and have them compete against each other. There are onine activities that can achieve similar ends - competition and thus engagement.

Perhaps the problem with discussion boards is that today's students have instant messaging via their phones, so why should they post something and wait up to a day or more for a response?

Gary, there's a lot of literature out there from the mid 1990s about the benefits of asynchronous online discussion forums & in a way they already provide a foundation for the online learning that's already happening all over the world (e.g., see literature on Computer Mediated Communications. There are many benefits to asynchronous discussion such as reflective writing & the removal of barriers to entry into the discussion that are often there in real-time (where the agile & verbose often take up too much time & space)

Hi, colleagues!

Rob said:

"Perhaps the problem with discussion boards is that today's students have instant messaging via their phones, so why should they post something and wait up to a day or more for a response?"

I think this is an advantage of the asynchronous discussion. The student places his opinion at the time that has availability. He can do research and prepare their response with a better foundation. There is space for both synchronous and asynchronous activities in a course. The teacher has to create an environment that motivates students to participate and discuss the topic in depth with colleagues.

The delivery method of higher education is certainly changing and definitely one size does not fit all types of learners. There are learners who are more comfortable with the face-to-face interactions found in traditional brick and mortar institutions and there are those learners who are comfortable interacting in an online environment. With advancement in technology, asynchronous communication has become more sophisticated and creating a virtual learning community is viable and desirable for many indivudials--working adults with family obligations, and professionals upgrading skills set. Effective communication is really about the exchange of ideas regardless of the delivery method. I see more traditional colleges and universities moving towards the adaptation of asynchronous communication to deliver content because it is more cost effective. Under the direction of a skilled facilitator, asynchronous communication can be just as effective in delivering content as the seasoned instructor can in a brick and mortar classroom. This is more of an issue with individuals who received their education in traditional brick and mortar institutions; however, the digital natives are comfortable because that type of communication is all they have ever known.

I agree with Rosa and William that the blended approach is more suitable for most students. The amount of blending can be modulated to fit the needs of the students. Some faculty are more skilled facilitators than others; thus, the blended approach can also be matched with the inherent skills of the instructor.

I agree with many of the comments. A blended course that has some face to face discussions that include many of the important language points or crucial theories and concepts, are needed to fully understand the course content. The background reading and initial discussions can be done online with further points being added at any time as part of a general discussion. This is what much of my research indicates to be the preferred choice of both students and tutors. There are some administration issues such as response time for queries and conformation of correct answers which is linked to class size and teacher workload. John Mccarthy mentioned student choice and that courses could be tailored to fit the students and I agree that courses should be delivered in a way that is best for the student and not the university. These problems are not insurmountable but the feeling I have is that cost and the amount of money that can be made from education will take a higher priority than student satisfaction.

I agree with John McCarthy about the importance of student choice. However, I tend to be suspicious of the whole discussion of “learning styles” unless we are talking about students with identifiable learning difficulties. While I agree that everyone has a preferred “learning style”, I’m afraid that learning styles are often viewed as straightjackets. When we view education as primarily a matter of specialized content delivery, then we can offer a variety of paths and activities (suitable to different “learning styles”), in order to ensure everyone an equal opportunity for success, which is a good thing as far as it goes. But if we go beyond the achievement of specific course objectives and view education as a matter of helping students to develop as “lifelong learners”, then we want to help them enrich their learning possibilities, to discover and experience new ways of learning, to expand their repertoire of “learning styles”, not to be pigeon-holed and confined by them. The real challenge does not lie in the choice of format (face-to-face, online, blended, etc.), but rather in the design of activities (in whatever format is chosen) that encourage learners’ active engagement with (as opposed to passive assimilation of) the content and materials of the course.

I am glad to see that there is a dose of skepticism about learning styles in some of the comments here.

==> The late Ken Kavale and Steve Forness documented the absence of beneficial effects of differentiating early reading instruction on the basis of learning styles in a meta-analysis published in 1987.

==> Dan Willingham has written repeatedly about the futility of looking at learning styles and the importance of looking at the demands of the tasks to be learned.

==> Instructional technologist Will Talheimer, who blogs at http://www.willatworklearning.com, has been offering $1000 since 2006 to anyone who can prove the utility of learning styles in instructional design.

==> In 2008, Hal Pashler and other eminent psychologists revisited the question of learning styles for the Association for Psychological Science. Their thorough examination supports the previous work: There's no reason to differentiate instruction on the basis of learners' learning styles.

As Professor Morel mentioned, the important factors are not learners' preferences. Instead educators need to focus on presenting examples that show clear differences between examples of different concepts, having students responding frequently, providing feedback about those responses, and so forth.

References

Kavale, K. A., & Forness, S. R. (1987). Substance over style: A quantitative synthesis assessing the efficacy of modality testing and teaching. Exceptional Children, 54, 228-234.

Pashler, H., McDaniel, M., Rohrer, D., & Bjork, R. (2008). Learning styles: Concepts and evidence. Psychological Science in the Public Interest, 9, 106-119.

I'm feeling the need to clarify here. My comments had to do more with preference for delivery of content and "style" as it applies to "I can set my own deadlines and do not require the physical presence of another person to keep me working." I was definitely not suggesting concepts like "visual learner" or anything to that effect.

I believe learner preference is an issue because of student history with learning. Some students can readily adapt to new models of content delivery and others, for a variety of reasons, have more difficulty doing so. Some learners need more scaffolding into new content delivery formats than others. There is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. A service to students is allowing them to see how much scaffolding they need to adapt and allow them to become their own advocates in terms of content delivery. When adaptation isn't possible, then they can look for ways to meet their needs themselves through careful planning.

For students with disabilities, the content may have inherent accessibility issues that require the instructor to be the one engaging in new learning.

@John Lloyd: Thanks for a good, eye-opening Readers' Digest review. I can see the seeds for an important paper.

we as educators can manage face to face discussions online if we are teaching with synchronous learning. In this case we can use chat to do brainstorming of ideas. With asynchronous learning we can manage discussions online but not face to face

I'm glad to see this discussion progressing. Now let's have some action. If you are going to the Bett Conference in London on 30 Jan - please sign up for our workshop:

http://www.bettshow.com/SeminarDetail.aspx?Semid=Reg169

I'm happy to discuss it on [email protected]

if you have any questions.

yours

Dr Anthony 'Skip' Basiel

As part of this on-going discussion I thought I would like to share my initial analysis of the results of a survey I did for this research. The chart does not paste into this box but if anyone would like to see the data I would be happy to send it to them.

"The chart shows that the overall perception of online discussions is lower than classroom discussions. There are significant differences in the perception of the effectiveness of the learning through the discussions, the sense of community experienced, that the tutor is part of the group, that the discussion will reach a conclusion and the effectiveness of the process at helping the student to understand the materials."

Interesting! Whose perceptions did you survey? Students'? Teachers'/tutors'? Both? If both, were there any significant differences between the two groups?

I did survey both students and tutors but I have not finished analysing thetutors yet and so have not compared their perceptions yet. The students are all master degree level and vary in age from 23 up to 55+ Strangely the male students appear to be more negative about online and more positive about classroom discussions than the female students which is the opposite of most of the literature I have read so far.

Watch this space for more analysis as I go through my data.

Gary, you are right! I did a survey too, according to my conception "A lesson of moral linguistics in the school of discursive reflection"

My concerns lay in the relationship between the method of curriculum delivery and the attributes of the specific profession in which the learning is taking place...ie Teacher Education appears to be moving to an increasing reliance on asynchronous modes of discussion as online learning demands skyrocket; which has limited alliance to the immediacy of communications required by teachers in an authentic classroom. Whilst not dismissing these forum discussions as important or useful, they hardly replicate the dynamics of interactive face to face discussions that twist and turn according to the participants immediate and reflective needs. The jury is still out for me on those who navigate a teaching qualification primarily online vs those that utilise a blended or on campus approach. Feedback from many teacher mentors in the field is that there is an obvious difference between them when pre-service teachers undergo practicum....

Am beginning to see light out of the discussions. Am starting a distance and e-learning department in our university. As I do a needs assessment, i find your inputs valuable. anybody with reports on distance and e-learning needs assessment. I need guidance on this.

@David: The costs of distance, the limited budgets, paucity of lecturing staff, the need for remedial work for incoming students, all demand that E-learning be a strong and strategic part of the university thrust. You can intersect the ideas of "needs assessment", "e-learning" and "university" to learn more about what you should be doing towards this end. Give this to Google: e-learning "needs assessment" university.

I feel even today, face to face interactions are better than online discussions. It is more because of the instant feed backs, which we can read from gestures and body language, better problem solving, more personal touch, counseling, more confidence on the part of students, advantages are many ! Not that e learning is not efficient but it depends on too many factors which may not be in our control !! E learning of course has its own advantages, which can never be compared with face to face interactions ! The biggest being exchange of thoughts, irrespective of distance, time, age, culture, creed etc etc !

Totally agree Jaya re feedback that is instant and critical in re-directing teaching to suit the learner...

There are two different methods for teaching viz., Classroom teaching and distance education. I think this two should have different application domain. For example when we want to conduct a mass education program for which the target students are located in the remote villages where the population is so thin that even OFC could be a luxury, we should use satellite communication system to implement the same. Possibly, there we can use the virtual classroom concept. Sometimes we need to conduct continuing education program to inform the working professionals about the modern developments. In this case also asynchronous teaching could be beneficial. But when we talk about the regular teaching program I believe Classroom teaching is the only option. This is so because when we first introduce some fundamental concept, it needs interaction that would modulate the presentation in the way necessary for that particular batch. When you teach in a class room you do get feedback (Jaya Kurhekar’s answer) even if no question is asked. Possibly this feedback brings out the necessary explanation for the present group of students. Asynchronous discussion has another major disadvantage that is its turnaround time. Unless the dialogue proceeds in some minimum pace the outcome of the entire discussion may not remain meaningful to the students who are trying to clear their doubts through this conversation.

No, it is difficult for us to access the situation where technology is the main challege in e-learning.

Dear Colleagues

If you allow me, I share you here, part of my experience in the application of virtual forums for formal courses at the National University of Colombia. Specifically, I have applied with relative success, virtual forums in a course on Fundamentals of Physics since 2008 until now. I have found that with the use of online forums, learning and engagement of the various and heterogeneous groups of students, participants in our special admission and academic mobility, hereinafter PEAMA, has improved substantially.

"the future" of (higher) education will sure be on increasing flexibility for teh students. Alllowing students to take part and learn from onine foruns, is the same as not forcing them to discuss in particular time and place. It is one positive move in terms of fflexibilty for the learner. Still, tehre are relevant and irrelevant foruns. Therefore, I disagree that online foruns are "the fututre" of (higher) education..

Hi

I think we should look at blended education. Possibly this could be a more acceptable form for future education. Please see my paper on "Seeking expert opinion online" where I combine chatting in one of my MBA management course.

Surely the thrust for MOOCs is coming from the needs of university management to generate lower per capita costs for teaching. Sure, students like an element of online learning for its convenience. But the moment they receive an assignment grade they want to see their tutor personally and immediately!!

This is why blended education approach is suitable to offer students both conveniences, online and the chance to discuss issues individually which could happen either face-to-face or by chatting.

Many of the online lectures are recorded and replayed over and over again by individual viewers. Sometimes, these include students in the classroom in discussion. However, too seldom are good discussions modeled--only short, non-lengthy discussions are usually shown.

This is true @Kevin Stoda I have yet to find a good model for classroom discussions on the Internet and although the asynchronous discussions on this site have been very useful to my understanding of some very complex ideas (complex for me anyway) they cannot match the immediate and intimate discourse of face to face conversations that help to assimilate knowledge into the student's understanding of a topic

I certainly agree @Robert that for introverts, online discussions can be far less intimidating and possibly more productive. As a teacher I find that the quick chats I have with other members of the department are much more informative in terms of my own understanding than the big interdepartmental meetings. This was true of my undergrad degree where most of the “discussions” took place over a cup of coffee. In fact I would say that I learned more in the disagreements after a lecture than I did in the lecture. My own research suggested the topics were a factor as was the teacher’s engagement but the biggest factor in encouraging students to participate was the level of punishment they received if they didn’t post.

I think, like so many other songs in the repertoire, tools in the toolbox, toys in the toybox of teaching, discussion forums are *part* of the future. The future (and present) will be about making professional judgements about which tools to use for particular purposes. Such decisions are based on our pedagogical purposes, our understanding of the affordances of particular tools, the constraints within which we teach, the needs and skills of our students and so on. A large part of educating teachers for the future is helping them to develop this kind of professional judgement, and the knowledge base on which it draws, in the face of their demands for simple tips and tricks and One True Ways.

Discussion forums are actually an art as well as an important issue of technological development. I think teachers and educators working with new technology--as a whole need more training--and time practicing on using these technologies better. I personally am hopeful but many of my colleagues are not happy with most results.

I have been involved recently in a mixture of both online and in-person teaching, so I can feel some of the differences and tensions. I like Kevin's comments - that discussion forums are an art, and people need to learn how to participate appropriately and constructively. I know that some forums get sidetracked into personal trivia, but then again, for say, young people doing this for the first time (academically), some social exchange may need to precede more academic comments. And I think online discussion forums are a different medium to the classroom (ie, not instant, and not fed by physical cues). Experientially, I think it is something you can get into the swing of, the idea that you can make or read a comment, then respond to it after a day, when you've had time to think, and perhaps read some material. But, as in this forum, there is a need to balance academic rigour (literature and critique) with spontaneity.

Great comments above..

I agree that there are many advantages for students to participate and opportunities for the instructor to engage the students... Just wanted to add that i find it very important to determine each student's style of learning during the course... Some learn best using visual aids, or have an auditory preference.. Whereas some learn better by reading/writing, or kinesthetics... The online forums are best for those who preferentially learn by reading/writing, and its hardly a problem to engage them.. But it depends on the skill of the teacher how to engage students who are not participating as much as others because they have another preferred learning style..

I think one gains better insight into these issues with more experience and reflection with the virutal environment.. I place myself quite near the start on this spectrum..

Regards, raza

Dear Raza

In my graduate classes or senior undergrad classes I run two psychometric tests online. One has to do with skills and the other is a personality test. All students in class do the tests then they write a criticism about both exercises. Based on these two I get to know my students learning styles and therefore I adjust my lectures to be delivered in the maximum diversification of styles to fit the students equally on the average. This way I can offer them blended education mixing online and in-class approaches. Things look better as for their performance.

Regards