Fascinating - sorry it's not something I can help with. My acquaintance with the area was limited to Newgrange and Tara - but also the round towers [eg Glendalough in County Wicklow, but also Kells]. Sorry, too limited knowledge. Any parallels in Scotland?

Hello Again Margaret, you know, the whole Boyne area is awash with archaeology from every period. I will look at Scotland, but I wondered about a connection with de Lacy's in Wales?

I live in Lusk, in north Co. Dublin and there are four round towers in this area: Lusk itself, Swords and further afield a demolished one in Duleek, and another to the north again in Monasterboice.  But I am interested in the earlier Christian sites since round towers are quite 'late' in my mind!

best wishes,

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

I wonder why the cross is near the ground. And an unworked part of the stone is on the top. Has the stone been turned over?

Best wishes,

Stefan

Dear Thomas,

Obtaining absolute dates for engravings is tricky to say the least, impossible according to many experts.

Your best chance is relying on a stylistic approach, but in this case there is another problem. Cross-like motifs are common in both Christian and pre-Christian rock art. Of course when the crosses have specific details/style you have a better chance of getting a relative date for the panel based on cultural affiliation of the producers of a specific style and the dates for their presence in the region. Unfortunately, what you have there (if I am not mistaken) are 3 simple cross motifs. It is kinda' hard to see in the picture... if you had a digital tracing of the art, it would be great...

However, the point Stefan made above is interesting. If the larger cross was carved upside-down or if the slab was intentionally rotated in order to exposed an inverted cross, this may be a reference to the cult of St Peter. Is there any chapel/church in the surroundings dedicated to this saint around?

Best,

Claudia

Thanks, Thomas. The reason that I suggested Scotland was the inter-connection in primitive Christianity.

Wales is obviously worth trying. How about contacting Howard Williams, who is professor of archaeology at the University of Chester? He has wide knowledge of funerary and commemorative remains, including those in Wales.  For contact details:  http://www.chester.ac.uk/departments/history-archaeology/staff/pr-howard-williams

His colleague, Meggen Gondek, is also working on the symbol stones at Rhynie in Scotland [Aberdeenshire].

Have you seen the 2015 volume, Early Medieval Stone Monuments

Materiality, Biography, Landscape http://www.boydellandbrewer.com/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=14947

Regards,

Margaret

I had wondered about the stone's orientation also.  There does appear to be some damage by tools and I wondered if

At the Henrican Reformation, the church was used by a Protestant community for a while and perhaps they reversed it for some reason....That would be unusual in itself.

The curious angle of the stone appears to have protected the crosses - the larger one is a seriffed Greek cross and the two others are Latin.

I will follow up on all suggestions. Thank you everyone.

I think the stone has been turned over. There is some possibility of ogham inscription on the cross itself (possibly on image 2). There are many such stones in Wales, Penmachno in N Wales and St Cadfan's in Towyn and they tend to be from the fifth and sixth centuries, and Saxon and Norman Churches were often built on the site of former churches,which according to some authorities were built of wood or even earth. Is there a circular boundary to church and graveyard. Are there any yews nearby? The Church at Nevern also has stones and was originally a church in the time of St Brynach of Ireland. For a definite diagnosis you will need an experienced archaeologist, as landscape issues will no doubt play a part.

I have photographed many such stones and this one is not complete as far as  I can see, but it does suggest a date between 450-onwards during the Christianisation of the native populations. In Wales, there are even earlier ones with Latin and sometimes Ogham inscriptions in places colonised by Irish people.You could try turning the stone over with the help oi=f a team. I am a historian abd not an archaeologist. This is just what I have observed and photographed on a heritage project.

HI Eve, very interesting.

I have noticed the tool marks to which you raise the possibility of an ogham inscription. I had assumed some kind of intentional damage. The stone is 103cm long and weighs approx 1 ton by sight estimation. It would have taken a lot of work to reverse it in the first place.....  There are indeed yews of a venerable age in the graveyard (as is typical in Ireland).  The graveyard is rectangular - the boundary dating from the time of the reformation when the church itself was re-modelled.

You can see the site here:

53 deg 40' 3.53" N   6 deg 20' 58.66" W 

I will follow up on better images including a digital tracing.

thanks,

Thomas

Thomas,

The original orientation of the stone was likely the prone position.  At some point in time, likely centuries ago, it was erected as it is today by a local farmer or early archaeologist, in the belief that it was originally a standing stone. There are numerous documented cases of this. During my studies of Neolithic and Bronze Age rock art panels in Ireland and the UK, I’ve come across several which have crosses on them, which were without question added millennia later. That said, I’m curious as to whether there are any other carvings on the stone, though given the fact that it’s been exposed to weathering, they may be impossible to see with the naked eye. You might want to contact the NMS, the Discovery Programme or UCD to see if someone might be interested in laser imaging the stone, as has been done with many of the panels of rock art within the Boyne. The reason for suggesting this, are the markings just above the crosses, which are either plow marks or possibly Ogham script, examples of which have been found on orthostats with Site 1 at Knowth, in both the Eastern & Western passages.  (see attached photo)

Approx. 1km southwest of the cemetery, are a number of enclosures and ringforts, though whether they have any association to the inscribed stone would be impossible to say.

ME027-085---- Ring-ditch

ME027-086---- Ringfort

ME027-100---- Ringfort

ME027-101---- Ringfort

ME027-069---- Enclosure

ME027-070---- Enclosure

ME027-071---- Enclosure

Ringforts are a ‘product’ of the Iron and Medieval Ages, so the crosses could date to the Early Christian Period. However, in a great many cases that classification is incorrect, as monuments are known to have been adopted millennia later and remodeled. As such, the monuments may date to the Neolithic or Bronze Ages.  Case in point are An Forradh and Tech Cormaic at the Hill of Tara, which are believed to date to the time of Cormáic mac Art (254 – 277 AD).  However, based on geophysical evidence and my interpretation of the motifs on L.2 within the Mound of the Hostages, those two monuments were originally multivallated ring barrows dating to the Neolithic.

(see https://www.academia.edu/7152873/Orthostat_The_Mound_of_the_Hostages)

Regards,

Sean

The graveyards were often 'squared off' in Norman times, a better clue would be surrounding tracks and roads. The age of the yews is a good indication of the sanctity of a Christian site.and its age. 

I thought they might be Ogham markings, but Sean is right, Christian sites were often modelled on earlier religious sites, but you would need some experts so UCD would probably be best to contact.

It´s probably  a sign of delimiting territory.

Yes, if it were in the countryside.  Here it is in a graveyard beside a medieval church. I don't think it is a grave-stone but rather a sign of delimiting 'spiritual' territory ;-)

Thanks, Thomas

Hi Eve,

yes, Lusk was 'squared-off' by the Anglo-Normans.

Many, though, have survived with their curved boundaries intact.

Hi Sean,

thank you for your comprehensive answer and suggestions.

I will follow up on the laser scanning, particularly to see if there is ogham or other inscribed work.

I'm interested in your idea of the stone being prone originally.

thanks, much food for thought.

Thomas

Hi Thomas,

Both you and Marc could be correct, if in fact the markings above the crosses are Ogham script, which as you know consists mainly of personal names, particularly on burial and land boundary markers. The reason for suggesting the possibility that the stone could be linked to the nearby ringforts, is that Ogham script began to appear around 400 AD with the majority of ringforts being constructed between 500 & 800 AD.

With regards to the NMS classifying the monuments I mentioned as being ringforts, I'd be willing to bet they're actually burial monuments dating perhaps to the Neolithic or Early Bronze Age, this given their proximity to the buffer zone of the Boyne Complex.  In studying the Rathcroghan & Carnfree Complexes and the surrounding area, they classified nearly 300 monuments as being ringforts, this in an area that's known to be a massive cemetery based on the archaeological record, what little there is, and the Senchas na Relic. As none of the monuments I mentioned, nor those in and surrounding Rathcroghan and Carnfree have ever been excavated, their classification and assigning them to the Iron Age is based solely on appearance and tracts from the ancient texts, which are known to be overwhelmingly myths, legends and folklore. That's not science, that's simply speculation, which leads to archaeologists and historians fabricating not only the history of the monuments but the sites as a whole. My point is, take their classification with a grain of salt.  That's not to say the monuments could not have been re-purposed centuries later, as in the case of An Forradh and Tech Cormaic.  However, to classify them as ringforts based on no scientific evidence, is to ignore their possible original purpose and likely very long history as burial sites. Ironically, the Irish government has done just that, in their submission to the UNESCO WHC for sites such as Tara, Rathcroghan and the Hill of Uisneach being 'Royal Sites', as in seats of the kings, when in fact their true history is that of 'Royal Burial Sites'. 

As for the stone not being recorded by the NMS, that's par for the course.  Two years ago I notified them of 2 monuments at Tara that I spotted in lidar and mag grad imagery that aren't recorded, which by the way I identified based on my interpretation of the panel on L.2 within the Mound of the Hostages.  They're exactly where the 'map' indicates they should be, yet despite the physical evidence, the NMS has yet to record them and dismissed my research out of hand.

Regards,

Sean