Once again the components of the field generator can be placed as far apart as needed to convince the researchers that power is flowing into the fields.

Three types of fields can be compared in which the Poynting vectors are canceled out. One type generates equal but opposite Poynting vectors when generator components are close together, resulting in a curl free large scale scalar curvature.

Another type generates equal but opposite Ponting vectors when the generator components are some distance apart and the Poynting vectors are directed away from the space between parts of the generators. On a large scale this field looks something like the first example, but on smaller scale in the space between the curl free fields have a distribution of Poynting vector components.

A third type of curl free field generator is like the second type except the Poynting vectors are directed into the space between parts of the generators.

None of these are producing a kinetic field on the large scale. The first example might be compared to gravity, and the other two could be suggested as making small spaces in which time passes slower or faster than usual surrounded by curl free scalar fields.

All of these devices can be constructed and tested.

Dr. Decker, Do we presume that a Poynting vector only exists at all where there is wireless EM radiation propagating? And if so, then the prevailing background magnetic field will necessarily have to be curled at the position and time when the EM wave pulse is passing through.

Are you asking what happens when two EM wave pulses of equal magnitude and frequency pass through each other in opposite directions?

Frederick-Tombe

No, I am contending that the Poynting vector can exist as a stress energy propagation in an interference pattern, when there are no remaining electric or magnetic components. This is derivable from the standard equations of fields and waves, also confirmed in experiments with Josephson Junctions, and described in patents by other researchers.

Dr. Decker, OK. So what would E and H represent in S = ExH in an energy propagation where there are no remaining electric or magnetic components?

Frederick-Tombe

When in vacuum space free of electric charges, E and H can be described by sine waves or cosine waves in perpendicular directions. Then S can be described as sine square or cosine square waves in a third perpendicular direction. When there is a second system of the same type and location S2 = E2 X H2 and identical to the first system except both E2 and H2 are reversed in directions, S and S2 are added together while E2 cancels E and H2 cancels H.

I hope this answers your question. The energy flow continues as a curl free stress energy wave and is detected in a Josephson Junction.

Suppose S and S2 are both of sine square wave form, but another system of the same parameters S3 and S4 in the same location and directions differ only in phase as cosine square wave forms. All four Poynting vectors add together and continue to propagate curl free stress energy, but there is no periodic fluctuation .

Sine2 + Cosine2 =1

Detection is more difficult without periodic fluctuation, which is the reason for describing special cases where wavelengths are a tiny bit different, and all the electric and magnetic components regenerate at distant places in a far field, while the curl free character occurs in the near field. This is for proof of concept, while in general case all the wavelengths would be equal.

These topics have been taught in university physics many decades, but not always applied in the same way as done here.

Stress energies other than gravity and EM are largely neglected but can be found in publications and patents, mostly for communication systems. Other stress energies are possible including curl free kinetic energy vectored fields. Also scalar potential stress fields are possible when the second system of S3 and S4 are opposite directions to S and S2 but phase shifted to sine square instead of cosine square. S and S1 cancel S3 and S4 while input power continues to flow.

Some researchers have tried to say that the power somehow goes back into the generators, but this can be disproven by separating the components as far as needed to demonstrate the power flow. A different topic of interference patterns applies in design of directional radio antennas where E and H are not canceled out completely, but the S energy is focused in some directions but not others.

Theory is wall developed, but much opportunity for experimental research remains in curl free vector fields and scalar potential fields. These topics are important for eventual star travel at high speed in deep space.

Dr. Decker, These are interesting questions relating to the principle of superimposition of waves, but in the special case of wireless electromagnetic waves, the first priority would be to establish the actual physical essence of a single EM wave in space in order to interpret the meaning of E and H in the context.

You are asking here about the superimposition of two EM waves, both travelling in the same direction, but which although the same in every other respect, are out of phase in E and H by 180 degrees.

You are therefore asking if this results in a net zero curl for E and H.

But I'm not sure if this scenario is possible if the waves are both travelling in the same direction.

This is where you would first need to describe a single EM wave before attempting to visualize a superimposition of two EM waves.

Frederick-Tombe

Essentially you are correct in the establishment of EM waves and interference patterns from second wave with phase difference 180 degrees. I include this as one of the proofs that power is flowing, by separating the parts of the generators far enough to detect the component waves.

There are many variation taught in some university classes. One example is where a single wave is generated in two directions, but one direction has a suitable reflector at convenient distance from the source, usually one quarter wave length distant.

Many examples are possible where E and H are nearly canceled out but not completely. The uncanceled parts are removed by passing the curl free power flux through a barrier that the EM residual is not able to pass.

Generators of curl free waves have been constructed and patented for communications with super conducting Josephson Junctions in the receivers. Independent commentaries in patent law education are supporting the claims. Modulation of the junctions occur when the curl free waves pass through.

Energy must be conserved and the configuration you describe requires the Poynting energy to continue propagating as stress energy as long as the interfering waves can be independently verified. Stress energy is a familiar topic which is used in several situations where the energy is not identifiable as EM. Essentially stress energy is change of frequency and wavelength of oscillators which may be virtual or real.

Yes, I believe you are correct in describing the way interference patterns are produced.

Dr. Decker, I don't have a problem with the concept of two equal superimposed EM waves where E is out of phase by 180 degrees. After all, we are assuming that E is transverse to the direction of propagation. But for S = ExH to still be in the same direction, then H has to be out of phase by 180 degrees too.

Until we ascertain the actual physical meaning of H in wireless EM waves in distant space, far from any electrical apparatus, then we can't know whether it's possible or not to have H cancelled. In my understanding of the situation, H is the value of the already existing background magnetic field and so it can't be cancelled. But of course, if E is cancelled, then S will be zero anyway, at least mathematically.

But the mathematical cancellation will not amount to a physical cancellation. For example, if we apply an equal and opposite force on each side of a brick, the force mathematically cancels, but the brick is still subjected to pressure. Likewise when E cancels in an EM wave. There will still be double pressure at that point. Curl E and Curl H might cancel, but H itself will still have a definitive value.

So yes, energy will still flow, but I'm not sure that we can correctly use the Poynting vector for the wave combination.

It's an interesting question though.

Frederick-Tombe

You are correct that the second H is also out of phase by 180 degrees when the Poynting vectors are not canceled out.

Other cases are possible when the Poynting vectors do cancel out, and the second H is not out of phase. The resulting field is not curl free.. Either way the input power continues to flow and may be found somewhere depending on the geometries.

Adding the third ad fourth E and H provide a way to make a periodic scalar potential, or a vector potential with no periodic character.

Dr. Decker, On having given the matter more thought, I am now of the opinion that if the two E's are exactly out of phase by 180 degrees, that this will be a highly unstable situation, but that should it exist theoretically, we will have no wave propagation at all, but that we will have the equivalent of static charge. In other words the opposing forces will create a scalar potential energy between them periodically.

Frederick-Tombe

The periodic scalar potential does occur when two Poynting vectors cancel, creating a stress energy wave propagation. If four Poynting vectors cancel the scalar potential can continue, but periodic character can be removed by design, eliminating wave propagation.

The question is partially answered, with some continuing questions about what the scalar potentials do when two or more are interacting with each other.

There are two ways to configure scalar potential fields, either positive or negative curvature, in which two positive or two negative curvatures are thought to attract each other, while a positive and a negative curvature are thought to repel. The forces act on the field generators in all these cases.

Stability depends on design and control of the field generators and their several components.

Dr. Decker, But if the two E fields cancel (mathematically) absolutely, how would we determine the direction of the wave?