Dear John,

I can check it for you here at MACN. There is a large collection of postcranium, but im not sure about monkeys. Other large collections that surely have materials are the Museum of Zoology in São Paulo (MZUSP), National Museum in Rio de Janeiro and the Goeldi Musem in Belém, all in Brazil. The MZUSP has a CT scan but I highly doubt a visitor can use. As far as the others, including here, no CT scan is available, so I think you might rethink your data-gathering protocol (maybe 3D surface scans of photogrammetry). But if 3d volumes are essencial, I think the AMNH has a large collection of monkeys in general and might have access to CT-scan, but as far as I recall, having access to it was not that easy.

Anyway, let me know if you want me to check it in here for you.

Best

Dear Fabio,

Thanks a lot for your answer. We would be grateful for any insight into what material is available in your institution as well as in the other museum collections you mentioned. If CT scanning facilities are not available, do you think it would be possible to get permission to bring loans to Germany, scan them here, and return them to South America afterwards? I heard there are some strict regulations, especially in Brazil. Surface scanning is an option, too. However, this would not allow us to also study the internal structure of the bones.

Cheers, John

Im sorry John, it seems like we only have 5 postcrania of Callithrix. Dont think it will be that interesting to you. Lots of Carnivora, though.

If you want to inquire about the possibility of borrowing them, you should contact the curator Pablo Teta. I don't know if it is difficult or not to borrow them. I've heard some stories, and they don't look good, so you should see if only 5 individuals are worth the hassle.

Best regards,

Thank you anyways Fabio! Callithrix is well represented in European collections, too. We are struggling to find material of the diverse species of tamarins. Would you, by any chance know the names of the curators of some of the other museums you mentioned in Brazil? If so, we would be grateful if you would provide them for us (maybe in a private message).

Thanks again,

cheers - John

It’s been a few years, but I seem to remember seeing a lot of marmoset and tamarin postcrania at the Smithsonian in Washington, DC. Their online database is searchable and really easy to use too.

Thanks a lot Andrew!

I should have mentioned that we already started to organize visits to the AMNH in NYC, the Field Museum in Chicago, and the Smithsonian in DC. But it is very likely that we miss a collection that may have specialized in New World primates and I was hoping to become aware of such a collection via Research Gate.

Cheers, John

Hi John,

There are several postcrania of Saguinus, Mico, and some of Leontopithecus, at Museu de Zoologia da USP (MZUSP). I don't have an exact number, but there are at least 20 specimens for sure.

Dear Guilherme,

Thank you very much for your response. Could you please comment on the status of the postcrania? Are they disarticulated and cleaned? Also, do you know anything about other Brasilian collections? It might be worth to plan a trip to Brasil (that would actually be a dream come true) and to bring our surface laser scanner along.

Cheers, John

I have microCT data of some hand and foot bones I took out on loan from the AMNH and LACM a few years ago. I scanned the material at our institution here in Los Angeles. If you want more proximal elements, I’m sure the individuals I scanned have them in the collections. (I likely took measurements with calipers on femora). I’m also guessing that there are more specimen than I sampled. The AMNH may loan out material to outside institutions after approval by the curators, but not sure if they will send specimens overseas. You could try organizing a collaboration with someone in the US and scan the material domestically. - Biren

When I was working on upper extremity postcrania in the very early 1970s, I went to the Field, AMNH, and the Smithsonian. Both the Field and Smithsonian had reasonable collections of tamarins, less of marmosets. I ran into some nasty weather in Chicago and didn’t want to be grounded there for longer than my funds would let me. The Field shipped specimens to my institution on the west coast. I don’t know what the attitude is today, but you could check with Bob Martin to see what there current policy is. Also, the Humboldt Museum in Berlin (formerly East Berlin) had a substantial collection of primate skeletons in their (then) poorly maintained back rooms. Perhaps since the wall came down and the two Berlins reunited, the collections have been cleaned up and better organized. -Marc Feldesman

Dear Biren, dear Marc,

Thanks a lot for your answers. We are looking into all possibilities at this point. The US collections (Field, AMNH, Smithsonian) seem very promising, indeed. We will reach out to the curators and ask for their advice. Yes, a collaboration to scan domestically in the US might make it easier to plan/organize everything from here - we thought about this, too. Of course we also sample major collections over here in Europe, but unfortunately the Berlin collection (next door) is not a very good starting point for New World monkeys, but yes, collection management improves constantly...

Cheers

Dear John,

In the National Museum in Brasil you can talk to Dr. João Alves Oliveira. I can give you his e-mail address in private. I did my PhD there and I remember of a large collection of tamarins and marmosets and I think that they have post-craniun. To borrow this from Brazil, as far as I know, is very complicated due to the law. The CT scan was lost to the fire in the museum though... In Macaé (Rio de Janeiro State), we have a small collection and we have some primates, I talk to the curator to see about the number of specimens for you.

Cheers

Dear Caryne,

Thank you so much for your answer and the contact. The fire is a of course a tremendous tragedy. We are trying to find a possibility to do CT scans in Brazil (preferentially southern Brazil). In case we manage, I will get in contact with you about access to the Macaé collection.

Cheers, John

Hi John,

Closer to home, the MNHN in Paris likely has a large collection - I believe there is a CT scanner in house but not certain. The RBINS in Brussels has a lot of material, but unfortunately as a non-primate researcher I have not spent much time looking specifically at what they have. I suspect you have already investigated these places anyway ;) What I can say is that both collections tend to have disarticulated material which is very loanable. As far as dissectables are concerned, it may be worth contacting the Antwerp Zoo - they have conservation programs for tamarins, and I seem to recall they had quite a full freezer when we went there a few years ago (though that may have changed).

All the best! Look forward to reading the results!

Kind regards,

Jamie

I have analyzed marmosets in the Rio de Janeiro collection and I am afraid there are not many postcranial material available, the material is mostly skulls and skins (sorry just now I realized I never answered your previous question). The MZUSP postcrania that I mentioned consists mainly of disarticulated long bones and articulated vertebrae/ribs (also, there is a CT scan in the MZUSP collection). The other collection in Brazil that I recall have many postcrania material is the Goeldi Museum in Belém, state of Para.

Hope this helps

Hi Jamie Alexander MacLaren

Thank you very much for your reply. We are very well aware of the specimens housed in Paris, but we have not looked into the collections in Brussels... And thank you for mentioning the Antwerp Zoo. We have been in contact and probably will be able to get some specimens from there.

Cheers, John