Is a low carbon development market a green market model?
If yes;
Is low carbon development a win-win sustainable development model?
If yes;
Is low carbon development a green growth based market model?
If yes;
Is low carbon development a win-win economy-environment partnership model?
If yes.
Then, sustainable development a la low carbon is green markets/green growth based model.
Therefore, why not to say openly that to ensure environmental sustainability as per goal 7 of the Milleniun Development Goals(MDGs) we have to implement sustainable development strategies(e.g. low carbon) through green market based green growth?...
Why to use low carbon development sometimes, Sustainable development sometimes, green growth sometimes, and green markets sometimes in any document coming from the UN institutions related to this file or agreements like the 2015 Paris Agreement giving the impression that they are not closely related concepts?. Why not to minimize confusion?
This line of questioning seems more than a little rhetorical! I hope you won’t mind if I attempt to answer anyway. I feel that “Is low carbon development a win-win economy-environment partnership model?” introduces a problem.
“Low carbon” does not necessarily equate to environmentally benign. There’s plenty of ways to damage the environment, not just climate change. Replacing native forest with a managed, fast-growing monoculture could reduce your carbon footprint, but it’s not win-win from a point of view that encompasses diversity.
Also, remember the good old Triple Bottom Line. Sustainability needs to take into account the needs of society... so your economy-environment model acquires a social dimension. Thus, those who talk about Sustainable Development (e.g. Brundtland) really aren‘t talking about low-carbon development – or not exclusively – and the more bottom lines you introduce, the more complicated the tradeoffs become. Pick your way through the semantic minefield!
Best wishes,
Richard
Richard, good day. I agree with you, the social component is missing there because green markets assume social externality neutrality. That is the UN new sustainable development strategy.....
I asked the question this way to make the point that "sustainable development a la low carbon is green markets/green growth based model", but if you read UN documents about sustainable development goals and agenda or the 2015 paris agreement or any government policy implementation document on low carbon development'''' they use those terms in confusing ways.... I see you can see, sustainable development, enven green markets, its not sustainability....
You may find the articles below interesting as food for thoughts: Have a nice day
Understanding the Death and Paradigm Shift of Adam Smith’s model: Was Going Green the Only Option? If not, Is This Option the Most Sustainable One?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/299882613_Understanding_the_Death_and_Paradigm_Shift_of_Adam_Smith%27s_model_Was_Going_Green_the_Only_Option_If_not_Is_This_Option_the_Most_Sustainable_One
Beyond traditional sustainable development: Stating specific and general sustainability theory and sustainability indices using ideal present-absent qualitative comparative conditions
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281276522_Beyond_traditional_sustainable_development_Stating_specific_and_general_sustainability_theory_and_sustainability_indices_using_ideal_present-absent_qualitative_comparative_conditions
Article Understanding the Death and Paradigm Shift of Adam Smith’s m...
Article Beyond traditional sustainable development: Stating specific...
Lucio,
Green building can be a win/win. My team's research is bringing tenant demand factors into the equation. By moving sustainability forward in a economically viable way, all three parts of the triple bottom line. See these two articles with several more coming out soon.
You may also be interested in our paper on how to build a sustainability index using mixed methods research (quantitative and qualitative),.
Article Green Office Buildings: A Qualitative Exploration of Green O...
Article Demand for Green Buildings: Office Tenants’ Stated Willingne...
Article The Application of Mixed Methods: Using a Crossover Analysis...
Dear Spencer, thank you for participating. Yes, green building or low carbon development or eco-products are examples of win-win green market strategies....but just as in the traditional market called perfect market we need a theory, but we do not have yet a theory of perfect green markets...we shifted to green markets without being ready in terms of green micro-economics and green macro-economics....
I asked this question this way just to point out that those promoting "green markets" and "low carbon development" seem to be on purpose misusing the terminology....
You may be interested in seeing the next step after green markets: Have a nice day
Beyond traditional sustainable development: Stating specific and general sustainability theory and sustainability indices using ideal present-absent qualitative comparative conditions
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281276522_Beyond_traditional_sustainable_development_Stating_specific_and_general_sustainability_theory_and_sustainability_indices_using_ideal_present-absent_qualitative_comparative_conditions
Linking Sustainable Development Indicators by Means of Present/Absent Sustainability Theory and Indices: The Case of Agenda 21
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281276222_Linking_Sustainable_Development_Indicators_by_Means_of_PresentAbsent_Sustainability_Theory_and_Indices_The_Case_of_Agenda_21
The Unintended Consequences of Paradigm Death and Shift: Was the Arrow Impossibility Theorem Left Behind?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/299879934_The_Unintended_Consequences_of_Paradigm_Death_and_Shift_Was_the_Arrow_Impossibility_Theorem_Left_Behind
Article Beyond traditional sustainable development: Stating specific...
Article Linking Sustainable Development Indicators by Means of Prese...
Article The Unintended Consequences of Paradigm Death and Shift: Was...
I agree with Mr. Richard in that 'Sustainable development' (SD)is much broader concept than 'low carbon model' or 'green growth'. These are one of the most critical components of SD. SD encompasses conservation/optimal utilisation of 'all resources' so that future generations are not deprived of that. This includes, energy, water, clean air, forest resources, biodiversity, livelihoods, etc......
I agree with Mr. Richard in that 'Sustainable development' (SD)is much broader concept than 'low carbon model' or 'green growth'. These are one of the most critical components of SD. SD encompasses conservation/optimal utilisation of 'all resources' so that future generations are not deprived of that. This includes, energy, water, clean air, forest resources, biodiversity, impact on livelihoods, ecosystems etc......
Dear Sudha, good day.
Are you sure you you read the question well and you read my reply to Spencer even though he did not answer the question directly, he just mention one win-win situation of the many industries out there or of many sustainablity development ideas like the low carbon based development.
To make simple, do you thinkj low carbon development is a win-win strategy? If yes, why do you think so? If not, why do you think so?....I am here to share ideas Sudha, not to impose them
Please take the time to aswer the question in your own worlds
Have a good day
Good day Mr.Lucio!
Yes. I understand. I definitely contend that low carbon development is a win-win situation across industries because it reduces operating costs simultaneously protecting our planet and conserving limited resources for future generations.
Dear Sudha, thank you for your time, that is the key to place green prices within green markets and outside the old traditional market as in the green markets environental issues are now endogenous issues. Due to the current green market knowledge gap creating in 2012 RIO +20(UNCSD) when we shifted from the tratidional market of Adam Smith to green market/green growth:We do not have a "theory of the perfect green market", I am working on it right now, we do not have green micro-economics(eg. the theory of the environmentally friendly producer and consumer)...., and we do not have green macroeconomics(eg. theory of the environmentally friendly econonomy....), and therefore we do not have the proper toodls to create and deal with green markets right now, reason why everybody, developed countries, developing countries, global institutions like world back and FAO, IMF...and even the UN agencies leading the green market process are having difficulty setting up green markets to implement win-win strategies like low carbon development....A kind of trying to fix today's issues living in the past...
You may find the followind articles interestisng as one points out that the shift to green markets means we have been living under distorted markets since Adam Smith's time and because of this we are going backwards in terms of economy thinking; and the other show; how environmental issues can be internalize in the price structure of green markets
What If Markets Have Always Been Distorted? Would It Then Be a Good Fix to Add Fair Trade Margins to Correct Distorted Agricultural Market Prices?.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281244562_What_If_Markets_Have_Always_Been_Distorted_Would_It_Then_Be_a_Good_Fix_to_Add_Fair_Trade_Margins_to_Correct_Distorted_Agricultural_Market_Prices
Complex and Man-made Markets: Are We Currently Approaching Sustainability in a Backward and More Chaotic Way in Terms of Economic Thinking?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281277199_Complex_and_Man-made_Markets_Are_We_Currently_Approaching_Sustainability_in_a_Backward_and_More_Chaotic_Way_in_Terms_of_Economic_Thinking
The Past Versus the Present in Development Thinking: Pointing Out the Structure of the Old Agricultural Development Model After Internalizing Environmental Externalities.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281244857_The_Past_Versus_the_Present_in_Development_Thinking_Pointing_Out_the_Structure_of_the_Old_Agricultural_Development_Model_After_Internalizing_Environmental_Externalities
Article What If Markets Have Always Been Distorted? Would It Then Be...
Article Complex and Man-made Markets: Are We Currently Approaching S...
Article The Past Versus the Present in Development Thinking: Pointin...
This is a neat question - thank you Lucio;
I think I get hung up on the binary nature of the question. It assumes that there are no grey areas. To make it better, I think it should be read as 'Can a ...' rather than 'Is a...'. But then that requires the follow-up questions of 'How can a ...', which is much more difficult to answer. I'll try it anyway.
How can a low carbon development market be a green market model? By shifting efforts from carbon consuming industries to industries that increase people's effectiveness at meeting their needs without consuming additional resources. Quality of life goes up, economic activity goes up, carbon intensity goes down.
How can low carbon development be a win-win sustainable development model? Same answer.
How can low carbon development be a green growth based market model? Can't really. Growth based markets are not possible in the long term. Efficiencies can increase only to a finite amount (somewhat less than 1), and then technological improvements will cease to produce growth. Once the resources available to the community are being extracted at a rate that can be maintained in perpetuity, but no higher, then no increase in consumption will produce a long-term increase in quality of life.
How can low carbon development be a win-win economy-environment partnership model? First answer again.
How can sustainable development a la low carbon be a green markets/green growth based model? Low carbon is a small subset of Sustainable Development, but even if that was all we focussed on, then green markets and green growth are different, and I would suggest divergent. Green Growth is a temporary solution, that ultimately must lead to a Steady State economy that considers ecological limitations. Green Markets, focussing on the means to increase quality of life by improving ecological services, is a permanent solution, but will have continuously decreasing incremental improvements in quality of life - still worth doing, but will have diminishing returns.
So, then your ultimate question:
Why do we use all these different terms if they mean the same thing? Are they just trying to be confusing? No. Because they don't all mean the same thing.
They may get used interchangeably in some cases, but that doesn't mean they are being used correctly. Just like people buying electricity are purchasing 'Power' or 'Energy' - those two things are related, used interchangeably (but wrongly) by the public, and are very different. Power is measured in Watts, or Joules per second. Energy is measured in Joules, or Watt-seconds. For precisely 1 second would the value of one equal the value of the other.
Good day Douglas, have you read the 2015 paris agreement just ratified last week?....Based on it, for the UN thinkers and now even OECD thinkers behind it and the sustainable development goals the answer to all those questions I posted is yes because sustainable development a la low carbon is green markets/green growth based model, which even Canada is about to start following formally as "zero carbon strategy"....
Remember the green market knowledge gap I pointed out earlier in my papers that may explain why all countries, developed and developing countries, seem to be having difficutlty setting up green markets despite RIO +20/UNCSD 2012 "The future we want") endorsement so they are trying to implement a low carbon development strategy without having yet green markets/green pricing....
Have a nice day Douglas!
There is no straight yes / now here. Poor countries skipping the fossil fuel phase and growing with renewables is something. A general increase in affluence does however bring other threats to the earth in its wake.
Good day Aart....I have been asking questions related to green markets or carbon pricing based markets or low carbon based markets or volunary standard based markets,,,,as all of them seem to be sustainable development based markets...confusing and we need to eliminate that confusion....
However it seems that you want to talk about fossil fuels vrs renewables, but you do not say anything about what matters about non-renewables and renewables which is need to close the renewable energy technology gap while transitioning from dirty economies to clean ecnonomies....You may find ideas in this paper interesting and you can use them as food for thoughts:
Understanding the Road Towards the Current Dominant Non-Renewable Energy Use Based Economy: Using An Inversegram to Point Out a Step by Step Strategy Towards an Efficient Dominant Renewable Energy Use Based Economy
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281230333_Understanding_the_Road_Towards_the_Current_Dominant_Non-Renewable_Energy_Use_Based_Economy_Using_An_Inversegram_to_Point_Out_a_Step_by_Step_Strategy_Towards_an_Efficient_Dominant_Renewable_Energy_Use_
Have a nice day
Article Understanding the Road Towards the Current Dominant Non-Rene...
I have my reservations against the desirability of growth green or otherwise, in particular for countries and sections of their populations that are affluent already. For poor people and countries , getting enough to eat is an obvious priority.
However, for affluent countries it is an addiction: The prevailing price structure rewards labour productivity and without growth robotics and automation mean more employment, bringing greater inequality in its wake. However, it is now getting clear that, even though work by people is the dominant marketable production factor, it s not one which is in short supply. That is the integrity of the earth and its natural biological and physical capabilitiea, which are under threat by economic growth. That threat is much broader than only climate change.
Dear Aart, green growth vrs bare growth, green growth should be more desirible as then businesses are subject to a codependent choice, only if if is environmentally friendly or only if the environmental project is financially viable there is a go ahead....in bare growh thinking anything that makes money is a go....
Aart given your concern you may be intereted in the following ideas:
a) the delimmas of going from "more is better" to "less is better"
Substituting The More is Better Paradigm for The Less is Better Paradigm: Identifying Key Transitional Problems
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281276526_Substituting_The_More_is_Better_Paradigm_for_The_Less_is_Better_Paradigm_Identifying_Key_Transitional_Problems
b) The only politically feasible option both developed and developed countries had to deal with global warming since 2012: Strong emission-Weak landscap impact based development and that is the way they are going
Weak Landscape-Strong Emission Impact Based Development: Is this the Most Likely Response in All Countries to Global Warming Issues?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281852540_Weak_Landscape-Strong_Emission_Impact_Based_Development_Is_this_the_Most_Likely_Response_in_All_Countries_to_Global_Warming_Issues
Have a nice day
Article Substituting The More is Better Paradigm for The Less is Bet...
Data Weak Landscape-Strong Emission Impact Based Development: Is ...
Dear Aart, giving your interest in sustainability and decarbonization you may find the following articles interesting as usually people write about sustainability without having a theory of sustainability or theory of sustainability markets, but in the context of sustainable development, a different concept....which led me to propose/advance one...:
a) the theory of sustainability
Beyond traditional sustainable development: Stating specific and general sustainability theory and sustainability indices using ideal present-absent qualitative comparative conditions
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281276522_Beyond_traditional_sustainable_development_Stating_specific_and_general_sustainability_theory_and_sustainability_indices_using_ideal_present-absent_qualitative_comparative_conditions
b) An application of the theory of sustainability
Linking Sustainable Development Indicators by Means of Present/Absent Sustainability Theory and Indices: The Case of Agenda 21
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298654455_Linking_Sustainable_Development_Indicators_by_Means_of_PresentAbsent_Sustainability_Theory_and_Indices_The_Case_of_Agenda_21
c) The paradigm evolution tending towards sustainability
Towards True Sustainability Step By Step Is Fine While There Is Time: Pointing Out The Unifying Nature Of True Sustainability With The Help Of The True Sustainability Wheel
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282317313_Towards_True_Sustainability_Step_By_Step_Is_Fine_While_There_Is_Time_Pointing_Out_The_Unifying_Nature_Of_True_Sustainability_With_The_Help_Of_The_True_Sustainability_Wheel
Utilitarianism, Raw Liberalism, Moral Liberalism, and True Sustainability: Basic Paradigm Foundations, Changing Assumptions, and the Evolution of Development Paradigms
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281277111_Utilitarianism_Raw_Liberalism_Moral_Liberalism_and_True_Sustainability_Basic_Paradigm_Foundations_Changing_Assumptions_and_the_Evolution_of_Development_Paradigms
d) The structure of the perfect sustainability market
Beyond Green Market Thinking: What would be the Structure of the Perfect Sustainability Market?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303014272_Beyond_Green_Market_Thinking_What_would_be_the_Structure_of_the_Perfect_Sustainability_Market
e) And about decarbonization
The Carbonisation and Decarbonisation of the Atmosphere: Systematically Linking Sustainable Development, Decarbonisation, and Adaptation Programs Using Qualitative Comparative Means
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281276418_The_Carbonisation_and_Decarbonisation_of_the_Atmosphere_Systematically_Linking_Sustainable_Development_Decarbonisation_and_Adaptation_Programs_Using_Qualitative_Comparative_Means
Article Beyond traditional sustainable development: Stating specific...
Data Linking Sustainable Development Indicators by Means of Prese...
Data Towards True Sustainability Step By Step Is Fine While There...
Article Utilitarianism, Raw Liberalism, Moral Liberalism, and True S...
Article Beyond Green Market Thinking: What would be the Structure of...
Article The Carbonisation and Decarbonisation of the Atmosphere: Sys...
Dear friends, here sharing my most recent article which I trust you may find interesting in terms of food for thoughts:
If Going From Free Markets to Non-Free Markets is the Way to Go: Does This Means the End of Rational Decision Making Thinking or Is This Just a Temporary Block of a Perfect Paradigm Shift to Green Markets?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312092336_If_Going_From_Free_Markets_to_Non-Free_Markets_is_the_Way_to_Go_Does_This_Means_the_End_of_Rational_Decision_Making_Thinking_or_Is_This_Just_a_Temporary_Block_of_a_Perfect_Paradigm_Shift_to_Green_Mark
Article If Going From Free Markets to Non-Free Markets is the Way to...
Dear Michael, thank you for your comment.
If you take the time to look at some of the ideas I have shared about green markets and dwarf green markets recently you may be able to see that you can not have green growth frameworks without green market pricing...
That is why a simple answer to my question:.Is sustainable development a la low carbon a green market/green growth based model? The answer is no.
Thank you for your time;
Respectfully yours;
Lucio
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