Dear All,
We discuss here at RG all kinds of manifestation of real world as well as try to penetrate into the unknown immortal phenomena and in spite of these ambitions we are not able to recognise the changes in our direct surroundings. I can add that many of us recognise them but accept them voluntarily?
Practically all kinds of goods produced by market economy are of low quality. From the ham containing at least 80-90% water, a lot of preservatives and pesticide residues as a spice till clothes or automobiles. Interestingly, according to series of bright decisions of EU textile industry and many other industrial production were abandoned in Europe. Almost all the goods came from some countries especially from a certain one whose products I always try to avoid but often in vain. I do not want to accuse these countries and exploited workers but this production system waste massively material and energy and deepen the environmental crisis as well as destroy our life.
I think this is a system failure the consequence of which there is an enormous long standing unemployment wave across Europe and elsewhere which psychically and physically destroy people.
Certainly, there are the publicans or vultures of this failure who do not participate in this thread.
What do you think what can do scientists?
I have long admired the work of Donella Meadows, but I did not know previously about the "12 leverage points", so I found them. Thankyou András!
http://www.donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to-intervene-in-a-system/
Dear András,
I think we can do a lot about the global condition, and furthermore I think that as scientists we have a responsibility to do so. As a result of the development of scientific thinking, humans have the intellectual and physical tools that have created the existing global condition. We are not by-standers.
Your question falls within the sphere of global politics. Politics and economics are directly related, in that each political philosophy has associated schools of economic theory
(for details, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schools_of_economic_thought).
Economics, as a theoretical discipline, is a science when it is separated from politics. Unfortunately, it may become a 'black art' when combined with politics. Nevertheless, political theorists can take the sting out of this 'black art' by taking a rational approach. I regard economics and political philosophy as sciences when they are explicitly rational and as arts when they are not. This is not to decry the arts because I think that when artists and scientists join together for political purposes, they become powerful. We just have to make sure that the purposes are good.
The problem is that humans, as an entire group, were once relatively powerless to affect the world as a whole. As a differentiated group, we evolved different ways of thinking and acting. Now we are so numerous and so technically capable that we have become a single group. Unfortunately, we are still working out how to behave as a unified group, and collective behaviors that are no longer appropriate remain the norm.
The idea "think globally, act locally" is valuable with regard to your specific question. It's a political idea that is open to application by scientists. Ideas in the field of "adaptive management" require engagement by scientists, whose responsibility is to model, identify indicators, measure variables, and set decision points. These are just two of many examples of the role of scientists in a collective endeavor to create a world that is dominated by humans who behave rationally and try to sustain it. If we fail to do that, the consequences will be dire, for humans at least.
Many years ago, when I discovered a world described in famous Orwell's book, I was shocked by fact, that such world may exist. Of course, at that time, I guessed that world was science-fiction and futurology. Now we are inside of this system and day after day we are finding news about global mechanisms of manipulation and spying on huge scale. Producers of goods are sure, that without their products we cannot exist. So they want totally use Internet, mass media, politics, and other servisants to wash our brains. They want to know all about us, and from early morning to late night they persuade us about "unique quality" of their products. Really, because competition, they did not pay attention on quality. Quality is problematic, because is decreasing the selling of new products. The most important is quantity of products sold. According them, our life and active work should be used for maximize their income only. When we have not money to buying, our life is worth nothing.
Scientists have important ability in comparison to common people. This is ability to analyzing, describing of nature of things, and to conclude. But science is not direct producer of money. So scientists behave different, according to rule - who pay my salaries he is my lord. Because no science without money, so independence in this matter is rather privilege of some limited number of philosophers and moralists. When they ask: what is most important in our world, they immediately have the answer - money and consumption. When they ask about morality, they receive question - what morality, there are many moralities. But no one is in using.
Dear Martin,
You prepared a comprehensive evolutional description on the development of scientific opportunities of humans. My (and others’) trouble is that scientific contributions (you mentioned: “to model, identify indicators, measure variables, and set decision points.”) seems not to be efficient sufficiently. As far as I can judge our opinion or behaviour are not really followed/estimated by ordinary people. I mention only the well known 12 leverage points of Donella Meadows. Not even scientists respect them.
I have long admired the work of Donella Meadows, but I did not know previously about the "12 leverage points", so I found them. Thankyou András!
http://www.donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to-intervene-in-a-system/
Dear Andrzej,
I agree with you that the Orwellian picture about our world is shocking but often characteristic for some cultures, states, and individuals and societal classes. Corporations and their leaders with media support are able to make people believe everything and in the next day even its contrary. They do not need brute force because media manipulation is more efficient and cheaper.
Scientists as brain workers are the only group – as you put it – who is able to see clearly real happenings and processes. You wrote: “ Producers of goods are sure, that without their products we cannot exist.” I think one can a bit transform you saying: without scientific contribution production is impossible! I feel scientist should start from this platform and not to be obedient servants of the capital! This is a question of our survival. This may be an utopia but I think we have not got too much time to act!
Dear All,
I am glad that except Martin and Andrzej scientists here at RG are satisfied with the quality offered them. It seems to me that the world perception has not changed since the publication of Voltaire’s novel where the wonderful Dr. Pangloss said “this is the best of all possible worlds!”
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