Tolga, I have had the same miscommunication problems. My suggestion would be to tell your department secretary to leave a written message on the doorway of the OLD classroom reminding students to go to the NEW classroom. In that way, if students forget or miss your message to change rooms, they can see the note and immediately head for the new classroom. You must cover ALL your bases! In sum, expect the worse case scenario and take extra precautions just in case.

The problem is - the 1 student who missed the room after the second E-mail. You'll never find universal formula. I supposed - because of the diversity of thinking style. I've tested my texts on one of my collegues -he is the unique who could find the second, third or else sense in every simple instruction and phrase. For years I couldnt realise - how is he doing it - finding the point in the phrase I've never mentioned.

But I'm agree with you - there is a possibility to avoid misunderstanding by not mentioning wrong position (place, time, etc)

Tolga, this is very interesting communication experiment.

However, it is necessary to make little adjustments to its purity.

If students read messages from the teacher at the beginning of the academic semester, not all read it to the end because there is weak motivation component.

If such message from the teacher at the end of the academic semester, I think 100 % of the students have understood exactly what was written.

Tolga, I have had the same miscommunication problems. My suggestion would be to tell your department secretary to leave a written message on the doorway of the OLD classroom reminding students to go to the NEW classroom. In that way, if students forget or miss your message to change rooms, they can see the note and immediately head for the new classroom. You must cover ALL your bases! In sum, expect the worse case scenario and take extra precautions just in case.

It may happem because when you send an announcement to studemt not all of them understand what you mean. The only way is that whenever you want to make the change you should make an announcement one week before and emphasizind the announcement at the last meeting with the students

Write/Speak as explicitly as possible. Be aware when a potentially cultural barrier to communication could occur.

Tolga, this can become a very interesting discussion. Several things come to my mind.

First of all, we have to distinghuish between several layers of communication: not receiving a message is distinct from not reading a message is distinct from not understanding a message is distinct from not following up a message. If you don't ask, you'll never know what really was the case.

Secondly, never assume what is logical or logically follows from previous statements will therefore be present in the minds of the receiver / reader. This is Principle #1 I tell my students in Software Engineering when I teach them Requirements Analysis: forgetting to be explicit about or just omitting things you deem self-evident can cause severe problems during software implementation (probably you know this source of error yourself pretty well).

Thirdly, timing of a message with an action component (things you normally put into an agenda) may have a direct influence on how well the suggested action is followed up, by sheer forgetting not only about the content of the message but also about the message itself. That's why people organizing conferences have a very special timing schedule to remember potential contributors and participants of upcoming deadlines and things like that. You may do it too early or too late: in both cases the communication breaks down, i.e. doesn't have the intended effect.

Dear Tolga

The information via internet should be short and objective (like a telegram) When you advise a change of room or time should be emphasized only the new location and or time in capital letters and underlined . At the end a message: if you have questions let me know

As Nelson already said: always expect the worst case. I have learned the hard way, that redundancy of message passing is a must. Don't assume your message(s) receive *all* intended recipients (any sense of "receive"). Repeat, repeat, repeat; if possible, in diverse formats (including the old-fashioned non-eletronic ways), helps finding ambiguous formulations, as students start asking why you said X yesterday and say Y today, although *for you* meaning(X) = meaning(Y). Only disadvantage: costs you extra time. So you have to find the optimum between redundancy and error-proneness.

Don't tell them what not to do; tell them what to do.

Tell them in one syllable words (old class) not eight syllable words (three-hundred-and-fifty-six).

Do not repeat any numbers in two places in the text because statistically the scanners will grab the wrong one.

Be careful of where you place the word "only". (It was correctly placed, but avoiding its use helps.)

I always posted a notice on Room 255, to redirect those who cannot read or who are forgetful.

What I usually do is send a message by e-mail and, fifteen minutes before the class, tape a sign on the door of the old room advising the students to go to the new room. I don't expect all the students to read their e-mail.

@Elizaveta - I agree 200% that, you will never find a "perfect" formula. But, my goal is to "reduce" confusion, and it is clearly mathematically possible ! I consider "reducing the confusion" a PROGRESS ... And, that's better than nothing ...

@Sylantyev, but, even if they were motivated, relatively, the CONFUSION RATIO could still be reduced. Going from 4 to 1 is good. If they were motivated, according to your theory, we could still go from 2 to 0 confused students ? My goal is to IMPROVE it.

@Hatem and @Nelson, "Announcing it in the last class" or "posting a note at the door" are definitely excellent ideas if there is time. Typically, if the class is on Wednesday's and Monday's, and the announcement has to be made on Sunday, there is no time for anything but email ...

@Ian, @Paul, @Nelson, if you look at my example, the problem is NOT the length of the message, but, rather, the content. I could make the email 10 sentences, and still have the same results ! In fact, the longer the email is, the more room for confusion, but, not if the contents are right ...

===================================

You can't imagine how many times I thought about sending a WEIRD email to students like : WILL NOT CLASS BE IN SAME ROOM, COME TO DIFFERENT ROOM 255 NEXT CLASS. I haven't experimented with this :) it is just a joke at this point, but I will try sometime, since, I think it has a theoretical significance (good experiment).

You just need one student to go to the old classroom out of habit, and three others will follow like sheep.

@Ian, it is not just students that do that :) You know how many times I kept walking to a store (following my wife) just to have my wife tell me that, she was following me :)

Tolga,

In my approach this is the problem of communication through a noisy channel.

Your example highlights the misunderstandings arising from the noise generated by the receiver’s unconscious mind. We have a joke in hungarian related to this kind of situation:

A new professor came to the town. He was invited to the Opera by the rector. All went fine until the opera finished and the public gathered at the cloak-room where the coats were checked in. The professor’s coat was stolen during the play. The situatioan was quite embarrassing, a policeman tried to check every coat on the leaving people. Next day in the campus a rumour spread: the new professor is dubious. He was involved somehow in that coat-stealing affair yesterday at the Opera.

The problem of mismatch between the sent and received message is vital or primordial in many settings and needs a careful analysis.

In the Emergency Rooms, where I am engaged in professional activities, I use the following guidelines for communication in critical conditions:

1. Name the adressee

2. Be short and concise. (What, where, when, how. NOT WHY!!!)

3. Use multiple channels

4. One of the channels HAS to be written (remanent)

5. Aim for a confirmation from the adressee. A nod or thumb up is usually sufficient in ER. I repeat my instructions until I have a visual/verbal confirmation of "Acknowledged!"

6. Sign. Voice is enough in verbal communication, in written messages the sender must be specified.

7. Attach some positive feelings. That makes the difference between a leader and a superior.

According to these guidelines your email would look as

For students of Group X ,

Your next course in Electrical&Computer Engineering on Digital Design using FPGAs will be held in Room 356 at …(date, eg 9th of January 2014).

Don’t miss the opportunity to meet your favourite professor,

Tolga S.

This message should be

- sent electronically (via previously established channels) to the students,

- posted on the door of Room 225 before you enter in R356

- announced during the previous course held in R225, where the students will have the opportunity to murmur “All right” as an answer to the question of their favourite prof.

To address this question properly and in more general terms, a profound analysis of the quality of information would be necessary.

An attempt

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Is_it_possible_to_measure_the_Quality_of_Information_And_by_the_way-What_is_Information_And_what_is_Quality

Dear Tolga,

This is indeed a very interesting topic. Thanks for sharing your experience.

I see you already have a lot of fruitful suggestions. One that I would also recommend is using the title of your email to trigger your students' attention.

For example use the words "IMPORTANT" or "URGENT" at the beginning of the title and summarize your message in the title:

"IMPORTANT: Next ECE405 at ROOM 356"

Might want to try that to reach that last student :)

Cheers.

-Ray

YES Tolga, this has happened to me a few times. I had to send a text (SMS) to the mobiles of at least 3 students. They seem to read texts faster than emails.

Besides that I had to put up notices on the doors of new venue and previous venue, just to get about 90% success in communication :) Some of the other suggestions, like Raymond's above is good and practical.

One thing I have learnt relatively recently is that, despite using individual email and/or group email via Moodle Stream (the main system my university uses) - the only real way to guarantee all get the same message is via Facebook.

In my case I will email them this and will post also on the door of the old classroom "ECE 405 class, pls proceed to Room 356 on [date]". Simple command, I guess will be successful when instructed in simple way.

Elmer - I like your plan. Simple, you would think, is the best option - but it doesn't always work. Perhaps students have a propensity to 'over-think' things or, again in my experience, it is the 'grapevine' and 'Chinese whisper' effect that tends to complicate things.

My Psychology teacher once told me if you want your student to do task 'B' instead of task 'A'. Instruct them only 'what to do', never mention negative statement like 'what not to do'

Many years ago an incident happened with myself. My father gave me a letter to post. He instruct me, 'Registered mat karwana' (Not through registered post, but through simple post). Hearing the word 'registered' I post the letter through registered post.

PS- Avoid negative statements to avoid miscommunication.

Thank you for the conversation - very interesting...

Well, this happened with me - in addition to the e-mail, the announcement, and the recorded message sent to all students - that the classes for that semester would commence week 2 ... I still had three students (out of 48) coming to the class and staying for a while, then they thought to check unit website - when they saw the announcement and left - only one student sent me e-mail - saying 'MY FAULT' for not checking my e-mails!? good confession...

But, what I believe needs also to be done is to place a sheet of A4 with the name of the unit and where it is being held on the door of the old room - so, in case they come to that old room they will notice this - that 's if they look at the door -:)

Sometimes - as mentioned by others in this discussion it is a matter of habit and joining others - without knowing where they are heading!

So, the short answer - do not change the status quo!

Regards

Theodora Issa

Dear Tolga, I think that you have observed many times that human behaviour is sometimes similar to sheep's or other animals that live in a herd. Probably it is a remainder from the old herd-period of humanity. So, the Email#2 is a good way to avoid sheep's behaviour (not only for students!).

Hello Demetris,

Good point.

Regards

Theodora Issa

My friend, Tolga,

Thanks so much for showing concern and for sharing the question with me!

From a post-structural view, I think that different meanings of words can be discovered by taking apart the structure of the language, as it appears on the page, and exposing it to the assumption that words have a fixed reference point beyond themselves. That is, when, from a very personal experience, I was once asked by an American colleague, whom I happened to meet as I was visiting one of the Universities, if I happened to know where office # 457 was located. We both were on the fourth floor of the building. My answer to his question was very slippery (because I did not really know where that office was)! I said: it should be next to # 456. He immediately thanked me, but then after seconds he broke into hysterical laughter. But we became very intimate friends ever since! That was my way of delivering the expression “I do not know.”

What you may need is a sheepdog, aka shepherd dog or Alsation ;-) (cf. Nelson)

Change textual language to graphical language, sort of icons, especially if the only option is using email ...

Dear Tolga

Thank you for the interesting question and all fruitful sdiscussions that we read

Make it an advanced research project for communication system engineers!

Weird example proposal to test: every room should get a remote controlled display to show any last minute changes in addition to or replacing some regular notice; the remote control can only operated by lecturer; it will be based on sending an email to an address that easily remembered by the lecturer; the email overrides the usual notice only once; care should be taken for the system to be secure and safe etc.

It is feasible and not too expensive (for experimental purposes) and makes a lot of fun. Once you have the results you let students make an interesting video of its working, put it on youtube and show it to all of your new students the next year right in the beginning. This is for problem/solution awareness raising. Then, perhaps, you don't need the system after all. It's just the power of imagining. But I'm being very optimistic here ...

Thank you all...

Great

This is an interesting idea Paul - but we need to consider those who do not enjoy having the same level of technology!

Regards

Theodora Issa

Well, yes, but also consider, that we may be using a technology - email communication - for things it wasn't intended for - classroom scheduling management or so - and so we shouldn't wonder when it doesn't work so well as expected. And even email systems may not work so well all over the world (i.e., an infrastructure issue).

Moreover, the things that at least my students love to work with - and wonder, if an oldie like me doesn't enjoy it - are mobile phones and all those fancy derivatives of it. Should we use such a technique? Or does your argument also apply in this case?

BTW: if you come from quite another discipline than engineering, you may like to set up an advanced student project in your own discipline. Be creative! For a linguist it may be interesting to find out what the optimal linguistic pattern or structure for a message of the intended goal and scope would look like: a study in language pragmatics. For a social scientist it may be worthwhile to find out, what the implicit assumptions about human communication in such messages might be and how that relates to other forms or goals of communication, and if there is a significant difference in the rate of communication breakdown between different sort of messages in different context. Etc. I have my own - personal - working hypotheses in all these cases, but I leave it to you to come up with interesting stories and proposals from your point of view.

I wonder why it is assumed that only students can become the victims of unquestioned habits of their own or of malfunctioning systems.

At one place where I am lecturing, students have access to the campus-wide classroom scheduling system and use it regularly to check any updates which can come from different sources. Thus it happens every now and then, that they - the students - have to collect me (sic!) from the room I thought they were expecting me.

At another place, the classroom scheduling system is working in such an intransparent way, that both students and teachers have learned not to complain if the room they were scheduled for (as they believed) was already occupied, so they had together look for the next apparently free room (always awaiting another class entering and claiming the same room).

And so on.

Dear Tolga,Dear colleagues,

You made an announcement for your students by an Email that you will change the classroom once in the next time and gave sufficient information on the location of the new class room.You made this announcement two times but with different wording and you found two different responses from the students. In the second time the response of the students was better as you believe that you expressed the announcement in a more proper words as well as blaming the students.

Tolga, i read the two announcements and i understand the same meaning. So, from my point of view, that the wording of the announcement is not the direct cause of the different student responses. From the principle point of view, i agree with you that there is strong relationship between the form of the sentences and their sense. In simple subjects, there is very little room for misunderstanding for normal human beings as in your case. Yes ambiguous expressions can lead to misunderstanding. But this is not your case.

I think that the the the cause lies in the communication method, the Email. The email can take different times to reach each student. But this is not an important issue in a reliable internet connection.Then remains how often a student open his Email box. And if he opened it would he pay attention to specific emails.Unfortunately , there is no priority for email messages to mark the important Emails to attract attention to them.

I think the missrespone of your students is caused by not reading your announcement.

When you blamed them they payed more attention to your messages.

Thank you Tolga.

I agree in part with Abdhelalim, the medium used to send the message is part of the problem, basically because not all read some emails. But on the other hand, I disagree with him, because students who yes read the messages, was confused, due to the by the ambiguity aggregate by numbers that referred to different places but applied to the same task, and above all, unnecessary clarification, as this change was for one day, then had to go back to the classroom that is always used.

Our language is ambiguous enough to add more!

I guess the problem would have been solved more easily, if he had placed a note on the door of room 225, which read: "Just for today (Wednesday and today's date) classes are held in room 356." The same text may also be sent by mail. Of course, in the latter case, the result depends on that the students to read the message.

Tolga,

Think about it, it is a miracle that we can communicate based on how ambiguous is the language and the different interpretations that we can have of a message.

If we break it down into components we have:

a)The sender: which in this case is you. You internalized that for the second message you should review how you send the massage based on the feedback you received.

Also, the specific language instances that you used to communicate the same message is also a factor.

b) The transmitter which is the email. Being a system that can have failure it will have. Also the assumption is that every student will read his email which is a very strong one

c)The signal- for some reason or another one forwarding email which the student uses to forward the email to his own personal account might fail(every time I read about data communications it just amazes me that it works at all!!!)

d) the receiver and the destination: we are assuming that the student enters into his email to receive the message, that he actually reads it, and while we expect that our message is really important it might be one of a hundred things the student has in his mind.

While I also get mad when students do not follow instructions ( for whatever reasons they may have), this thread will remind me to take a step back and reassess the way I communicate with my students,

Thanks Tolga

Dear Tolga,

You show a real problem, and this is encountered in many circumstances, not only related to people communication with each other (in this case, the teacher/students).

I'm doing similar experiments with students on the classes "Fundamentals of chemical calculations". In the random circumstances, I give students in writing simple task, which generally is not a problem, and at least 80-90 % of all students in the group solves them correctly. After some time (quite a long - in order to avoid rapid association the content of tasks) I give in writing the same task, but with the revised data, and what is important - with additionally introduced, one numeric data, which is negligible given, does not affect both the methodology of counting task and the end result. Typically, however, about 50 % of students (or more) commits a mistake in the calculation, recognizing that additional data given relevant for the final result.

Why is that?

I believe that the primary factor to make mistakes in such situations (as described by me, and by Tolga) is not applying sufficient weight to careful reading of the text (with understanding).

Dear Tolga, in some cultures juvenile age can be regarded 40 years old, if a "young" man doesn't marry (a bachelor). To our culture, those parents are bad, who can't provide for their children up to their children's pension. New generation becomes adult more later than the previous one. The system of age stratification depends on culture (upbringing, genes) and changes throughout the time. One of the variant is the period from 11 up to 21. Youth may be early and late. I think, there are a lot of cases of infantilism among our dearest students. I think, the process of social maturity and self-consciousness is not achieved by them. They wanted to play hooky under the guise of misreading. It's students' trick.My (even gifted) students like such tricks.Every change in curriculum leads to such sort of situation- it's only an excuse. In this case I remember my juvenile age- only my friend and I used to listen to our Professor(instead of 150 students) on the last pairs on Saturday.We felt themselves victims, but we couldn't play truant. Unfortunately, my younger son does it easier on various pretexts.

How can we avoid CONFUSION in communication ?

I think to be a good communicator; you have to be a good listener. I did a research paper in 2011 among undergraduate students in my university, I used four listening styles (people-oriented, action-oriented, content-oriented, and time-oriented). The result revealed that the listening style predominant among students was people-oriented.

My point is, by developing listening skills of students and understanding the situation and person's attitudes in that situation may help us decreasing confusion in communication.

Dear Aieman,

I agree that this shortcoming of the young generation can be eliminated by developing certain skills at the stage of intense absorption of knowledge, in his youth.

However, I believe that not enough treatments leading to the development of listening skills and understanding of content. This action must necessarily be coupled with measures aimed at teaching young people responsible for errors arising from certain omissions (for example, the omission consisting of negligent analyzing the information targeted to them).

I do not think so that it was a communication confusion. It was may be because of the carelessness at part oft students. it was not about numbers in the example you gave Tolga. However no doubt confusions are there...for that we have to be good communicators.

Reviewing what could have caused the 'confusion' and making an effective adjustment is commendable. It is true that sometimes we are so conditioned that having moved towards a particular venue several times for a particular activity makes the brain direct us to the venue for the activity when we are not consciously thinking of a change; so I do not think, as earlier observed in one of the comments, that the instruction was confusing. A notice of 'change in venue', on the door of the old venue is equally good, but should be in addition to the personal mail. otherwise the students would have walked up to the old before coming to the new and may come late. Similarly, a reminder, very close to the time, will keep the information active in the brain and order the steps appropriately. Funny!

Tolga, in lighter vein, "Ok, that Wednesday, out of the 20 students, 16 of them came to Room 356 !!!", just proves the Pareto Principle! :-)

@John, I am still chuckling over this. How funny it is that, 4 is 20% of the class :)

The problem is that, I want 100% of the class in the correct room :)

Do you really want 100% of the class in the room at the scheduled time? In that case, I fear, you have to impose sanctions on actual behavior. Just pre-informing the students and hoping they will follow you won't be enough. Coming too late or not at all should be punished. No excuse for "didn't receive the message", "got the message too late", "couldn't find the room", etc.

Of course, positive reinforcement (reward) is to be preferred over negative reinforcement (punishment), but if all else fails, then the latter shall be used. At several institutes where I work, attendance lists are kept. I may (or may not) adopt the policy, that students are allowed to be absent without notice or for no valid reason at most twice. However, they should know that when they deviate from the rule, then they risk negative consequences for their final grade. Of course, I explain that my rule is strict and that I will be 100% consequential in applying the rule.

The rationale of such an approach is to claim that students are fully responsible, accountable and liable for their actual *behavior*, as long as all prerequisites for that behavior are fully given, i.e. I gave them all the information and instructions to comply to my expectations. If they don't, they have to pay. Like in real life.

If even this doesn't work, there is one last resort, I call it the "reassuring reality redefining" principle (R^3), a beloved trick of politicians: redefine "class" as a variable which takes on its value on the moment that you start lecturing in the correct room. Then, by definition, you will always have a full class. Isn't that great and reassuring?

Paul, there is a term for "I didn't receive the message" . It is called the "ostrich defense" :) It is equivalent to "my head was stuck in the sand, this is why I didn't see it" :)

My response is : Come on , if you are not receiving messages, change your smartphone, or, do something about it !

@ Tolga, Pareto Principle was made "tongue in cheek" as you know - but maybe there is more to it. I wonder whether the issue is not one of hemispheric dominance - left hemisphere usually cognitive side and right hemisphere usually emotional side. What if the ones who did not pitch up were right side people? Just a thought (on my left side). There is quite a lot available on hemispheric dominance - but unfortunately I do not have any references immediately to hand. It would be nice to get comment from people who know more about this matter than I. Any ideas out there?

Surely, the smaller number of students missing subsequent lectures indicates learning behaviour.

@John,

Explaining more insightfully, Pareto principle says that, "the sum of the mistakes that 20% of the class makes (the ones with the highest mistakes) is equal to the sum of the mistakes that the OTHER 80% makes (the ones with the lowest mistakes).

Mathematically, Pareto principle is simply, a Pareto distribution (x=number of mistakes, y axis=the number of students making that many mistakes), and states that, when "x" is at about 0.2, the sum of the area under the plot is 0.8 up to that point. This is due to the exponential decay behavior of the plot. So, this means that, any phenomena that exhibits a Pareto distribution will have that 0.8, 0.2 property.

According to this "Boswell theory" :) you are telling me that, , if we sorted the student mistakes from the highest to the lowest, we will get an exponentially decaying plot, i.e., it will follow a Pareto distribution. Can you prove it :)

Hold on, one more thing. A few days ago, Ian Kennedy said "students follow each other like sheep."

This is, mathematically (probability theory-wise) speaking, stating that, "student mistakes are co-dependent". Between John Boswell's Pareto distribution, and Ian Kennedy's mistake co-dependence, you guys might have very well gotten a head start on modeling "student mistakes" :) :) :) I am officially calling it the Boswell-Kennedy principle :)

Thanks. Now all we have to do is get our paper accepted.

Politically correct I would call it "copy-and-paste-behavior" ~ indeed, many psychologists and educationalists believe that most learning is by example, thus more of an inductive type, with due regard for exceptions to the rule. The axiomatic-deductive type of learning is - according to this theory - rather ineffective because it doesn't fit human's nature. QED.

@Tolga, still in lighter vein, I am lying awake at night thinking how to prove the Boswell-Kennedy Principle! :-):-) But while I am thinking about this, if you have a chance look at the two papers I have attached, and you will see where I am going with this argument. It would be interesting to see what the "hemisity" of the 20% (who did not turn up) is. See what Morton & Rafto have to say in their paper: " 4.2. Unilaterality of the executive system and the existence of binary hemisity - Such laterality of an executive system element provides the missing mechanism for the existence of hemispherity (Beaumont et al., 1984), and specifically for hemisity. Depending upon within which of the functionally very different hemispheres this executive module is embedded, local environmental conditions resulting from differences in hemispheric structure, connectivity, and function would seem to demand the existence of the contrasting thinking and behavioral style differences between right and left brainoriented

individuals as inevitable."

@ Tolga, and the second paper is attached (I have not figured out how to add more than one attachment at a time to a posting). Using the wrong side of my brain! :-):-) No doubt you know all this stuff - but it is still interesting because it is likely that most of us do not take this into account when looking at communication "mistakes". Have a look at the classic experiment of Dean Delis on page 63 and tell me what you think.

Dear Tolga,

Maybe part of the problem is in the writing of the message?

ORGINAL:*** EMAIL1: Dear students, I am moving the ECE405 classroom only for one day from Room 225 to Room 356. Please do not come to Room 225 this coming Wednesday.

SUGGESTED CHANGE:*** EMAIL1: Dear students, I am moving the ECE405 classroom for only one day -this coming Wednesday- to Room 356.

In the original version, the usual Room 225 was mentioned twice and the temporary Room 356 was mentioned only once.

I'm not a linguist - at most a psycholinguist -, still I'm pretty sure that some linguists will have thought hard about formulating and formatting such messages, as they have done with user manuals: message length, sentence length within message, structure/syntax, choice of words, choice of person, passive/active, order of statements or imperatives, redundancy, etc. Typography may also be exploited, although with email you may not come far with that. Still I doubt that you will come very far with language only. Pictograms seem to work very well in traffic, on workfloor, in buildings, on computers, ...

A problem possibly, I think, is not what is written, but how it is interpreted.

@ Tolga, where are the students from (the 20% who did not pitch up)? What is their first/home language? Are some/all bilingual? At what age did the bilingual ones (if any) learn the second language? Are some/all multilingual? What are the grades like? (the 20%). If the grades are not good then maybe they should take some other course! :-) :-)

@ John Boswell : Two sides of the same coin ;-)) We're talking about communication, and that's a relationship between sender and receiver, so focussing merely on the one doesn't do justice to the other. Or so.

@ Paul, true... :-)

@John, @Paul, Yes, this has something to do with bi-lingual students, etc. but, going back to Paul's SUGGESTED CHANGE ".... Room 356" . Only mentioning Room 356 once, I am agreeing with that. But, a deeper question is : how do the NUMBERs play a role in CONFUSION ? In other words, could you formulate a way to write this email, where there were multiple numbers, however, it DIDN'T CONFUSE students ...

My original theory : "put down only a single number" works ... Paul suggested the same thing. I am, however, finding this the "lazy way out" :) I am trying to find the neuroscience cause of WHAT is confusing students . Would the following alternatives confuse the students exactly the same way ? Let's think deeper ...

**a** If there were two numbers, but, they were very different in magnitude, such as 356 and 45638

**b** If there were two numbers, but, one was an impossible room number, such as 56 in a 356. Assuming that, the building doesn't have double digit room numbers, and every student knows it

**c** If there were two numbers, but, one was clearly impossible, say, a negative number, 356 and -255 (minus 255)

**d** if there were two numbers and one was SPELLED OUT, i.e., 356 and two hundred fifty five

**e** If there were two numbers and one was mentioned real late, i.e., 356 and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ... ... ... blah blah 255,

I am trying to put together a neuroscience-based theory for confusion. It is pretty clear to me that, students weren't paying attention to the details, but, this doesn't necessarily have to correspond to "mistakes" if the unconscious processing without attention doesn't lead to mistakes ... This relates to where the numbers are processed in the brain and where the objects such as "buildings" "rooms" "room numbers" are stored and the relationships are formed among them during reading the email ...

In reading, I think that students (and others) just look at the enveloping shape of the words.

E.g., 255 and 356 fit in the same rectangular box, and stand out as numbers, not words, also thus can easily be mis-memorised or switched.

Wednesday has the same shape as Wadzazdoy, but has a different envelope to Tuesday. That is why nobody turned up on Tuesday!

@ Tolga Soyata ~~~ "This relates to where the numbers are processed in the brain and where the objects such as "buildings" "rooms" "room numbers" are stored and the relationships are formed among them during reading the email ... ~~~

In the seventies, this was exactly what we (psycholinguists, cognitive psychologists, AI people) were trying to do with **semantic networks** (cf. for instance Quillian, Winograd, much later also Minsky or the guy trying to catch ALL common world knowledge in one gigantic database, yes, I think the project is still going on; ADDED: WordNet (George Miller et al: http://wordnet.princeton.edu/))

Up to now with meager success, we have to admit. Looking to neuroscience doesn't help so much, I fear. Or am I missing something even misinterpreting your quest?

Sure you can come up with what I call working hypotheses, but you won't be able to answer them without experimenting or building AI models which would simulate such behavior (pioneers Simon and Anderson should be mentioned here).

@Paul, this is good ... Let me re-phrase then : considering what Ian said a second ago, and your new post, please look at the 5 scenarios I described, **a** through **e** and tell me which ones you think would be more error-prone ? Also, everybody else, please chime in if you have a guess ...

Some time ago a friend sent me the following text (found on internet).

Although the letters are scrambled within each word, the whole paragraph is still readable.

==========================

Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig, huh?

==========================

I still think, maybe, it is a question of right or left hemisphere - and not the numbers, but the nonvocal communication (see p63 of attached paper) that is causing the problem. Also look at the classic experiment of Dean Delis on p63. Not that I am suggesting the students are brain-damaged, but ... :-):-) This issue is rather complex. When we read we need to employ the "verbal interpreter", which sits on the left hand side, to change it into "words" (see Robert Moss PhD on RG re his Cortical Dimensions Model, Clinical Biopsychology Model). If you have the time look at the attachment in an earlier post of mine re hemisity (maybe this has a bearing on the issue). Forgive me if I sound like a vinyl record that is sticking to the same groove - but I really think (because I do not know much about these matters) that the answer, some of it maybe, lies in which side(s) of the brain interprets the signal coming in. Only my thoughts and I cannot prove anything. This might be a good idea for some research at a place where it can be done properly. I am not attached to a university, and getting my alma mater to do it without finding money first will be difficult, if not impossible. It is of course not just numbers that we are talking about. The issue is far more complex. Language and more specifically the fact that we read and write is really the issue. In the past you will remember that terms such as "concrete thinkers" and "abstract thinkers" were used (maybe still are) and we understood the difference and could also see the difference. I wonder what the result would have been had Tolga only spoken to the students - had told them of the change (and not done it by email)? Of course then another problem will immediately surface - how much do we remember of what we heard? How "good" is our short-term memory, how "good" is the conversion for short-term memory to long-term memory, and how "good" is our long-term memory. The solution is to keep the students in one place until the entire program (all the courses) has been completed! :-) :-)

Sorry, short-term memory "not so good". Attachment now attached!

John - I fully understand the short-term memory relapse. Quite apt for a question about confusion in communication -hey!! ; )

What would happen if you sent every student a different message, i.e. message #n telling student #s to go to room #r, and all #r should be different? Swarm intelligence? Sheep intelligence? Not working! Awareness raising? Activity raising? Surely! Students talk with each another, so they will be alerted that something is wrong, and that they are supposed and urged to do something. After things have been settled, by this feedback loop, the four remaining to go to the false room, should probably be treated on a very personal basis (perhaps the better students, not spoiling their time with reading emails ...;-))

Like the response Paul. Let's all do some similar tests on students and see what we come up with. Let's leave messages in chalk, crayon, email, Face-book etc and see what works best. Personally, I would argue that none are better than the other. If a student wants to attend - they will be there. If they don't, they will find every excuse not to be there - and blame it all on on someone else.

@John, I read the "Origins of the left and right brain". Absolutely wonderful article !!! It has almost 200 citations !!! Summary:

*** LEFT BRAIN (left side hemisphere - LSM-) control right arm, right leg, right ....

*** LSM is responsible for "routine" processing, i.e., "expected stimuli"

*** RIGHT BRAIN (RSM) control the left-side body parts.

*** RSM is responsible for "unexpected stimuli" like, a lion is running towards you ! RUN for your life !!!!

*** Clearly, RSM has the override effect ...

I am trying to figure out how you want to tie this to this question ...

Are you suggesting that, LSM or RSM-based processes have something to do with the way the students mis-interpreted my email ?

@Tolga, yes I am suggesting that this could have played a role. I cannot prove it though - but it would be interesting to see what others, who know more than I, think about this. If you can find the time have a quick look at the attached paper. It is interesting. Coming back to the original problem - left hemisphere handles detail and right hemisphere handles big picture (not much detail). Left is slower to process and right is quick (survival). You will find the work of Robert Moss PhD (he is on RG) very interesting. He writes of this issue and uses it in his Clinical Biopsychology Model. This really is an interesting thread. Thanks for starting it.

If your theory is right, right hemisphere -RH- "overrode" the left hemisphere -LH- response.

According to both of these papers, the only time this happens: when there is "expected stimuli" ... Now, what is the unexpected stimuli here ? which forced the RH intervention ? I am trying to support your theory :) It could be

1) they were in a hurry to go to another class

2) their friend was texting them, telling them he won a $1M in lottery :)

3) ?

Yes, that's where I am going with this. It is interesting to see what Bob Moss has to say about cognitive memories stored in LH and emotional memories stored in RH. Both sides of course feed into the autonomic nervous system. And according to Bob the cognitive side has no direct control over the emotional side. This is why you can say one thing and "feel" something else. You know the feeling! :-) Also the aspect of where the language is centered - and the issue of more than one language. The RH has very little language (according to Bob). So, yes I believe emotions play a role. [Just a thought on another matter - you might want to rope in Bob Moss with you Global scholarship. He will be good to have on board. Have a look at his CV and decide for yourself.]

In general (i.e., not just emails), when one is the sender of a message, one has to use one's "RH" to put oneself in the shoes of the receiver, in order to tailor the message content, the words/phrases used, the medium, and the format to fit the receiver's perspective, background, recent experiences (if known) so that the message content/effect will not be lost or attenuated too much.

Once this is done, one can use one's "LH" to make a draft that provides the applicable context and provides the logical transitions from one paragraph to another. If possible let it sit for a while, then come back to it to see if you have done your best at relating to the receiver in his/her context and providing all the necessary logical bridges. Begin your message with the most important idea, and repeat the most important idea at the end.

@ Tolga (and others who might be interested) attached is the "freshest" article by Bob Moss. It is an "appetiser" for his more comprehensive papers. I think it is a great article. It gives one a lot of "food" for thought in the LH! :-) [You will see from what I have written that my RH is in need of food]

And then there is the gender issue. How many were women, men, or men and women? See attached paper. Makes it more interesting.

John, I read them. Another two great articles . What is your theory on LH and RH's relationship to the CONFUSION ?

@ Tolga, before I try to answer your question, have a look at the sleep thread, link below ... this is my way of trying to avoid answering your question! :-) .

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Why_do_humans_and_advanced_species_need_sleep_What_is_the_role_of_sleeping_in_learning_and_long-term_memory_LTM_establishment?cp=re65_x_p2&ch=reg&loginT=r7o9P0hOqx4QgwSuiA2yOA5dSk4y9O0FkyE4bWWAI7nK7HrvBJobzg%2C%2C&pli=1#view=52e3c882d4c1180d028b45da

So, the question is, in addition to all the other "stuff" mentioned above, what is their sleep activity like and did this influence their response (learning - memory)?

Simple, be precise in your communication.

@Ljubomir, Tolgas example showed, that´s often no problem of the communicator but of the recipients. These people don´t hear, don´t see and misinterprete your statements. So your "simple" is to simple.

@Hanno: Yes, I know. I have many similar examples, like Tolga with my students. The problem arises (in my country and my University) in last 7-8 years. Anyone can study at the University. Selection (entrance exam) is almost non-existent.

Moreover, this “nowadays” students simply say, “I am not interesting in “Why, What, How…” (I do not pay for that), please tell my just “How to!” thanks to bloody Bologna (European friends knows what it is). However, when I began my teaching at the University (thirty years ago) the sentence "Scientia potentia est" ("Knowledge is power") been a very significant. Today they thing that “information is power”, but they do not know how to use information.

The same is in communication with them. You have to know with whom you are dialing, and according to that give them appropriate facts in communication.

@Ljubomir, @Hanno,

I have a student body composed of 10-20 countries. Yes, everyone might be at a different phase of "learning English" or even "learning this country". This could effect communication. This is obvious. But, one thing that is for sure, I, as the instructor, could have PREVENTED some (or most) of these issues by re-structuring my email. So, I am not so quick to blame the students ... Do you agree ?

@Tolga...

Yeah, I agree. But I am talking about students who attend my University where is no problem in "language communication" (we all speak the same language). Of course I do not want to blame them too.

The problem is, "Are they able to understand and how" and where is the bottom line?

Confusion in communication, isn't that the root cause of many disputes? I have observed that how much ever you try to communicate with a clear aim, clear conscience, high compassion, sincerity , there are occasions and circumstances where people misinterprete and create confusion ! Maybe ;

It is their state of mind,

It is their prejudice,

It is careless attitude,

It happens in a hurry,

Their minds are elsewhere and not attentive,

They don't want to be attentive,

The list is unending :))

The bottom line is, that you can't really avoid it. And that's all right so! Why? Think of abuse! What does "avoiding" means, taken literally and fully? It would have to mean, that you are able to control other people's minds irrespective of the myriads of distracting and corrupting possibilities of communication "failure". It means: your message would always arrive at the intended minds, correctly and timely interpreted, and acted upon in the way you meant. If there were a failsafe method to achieve such human communication, then all kinds of would-be dictators (mind the word: it is derived from Latin "to tell somebody"!) would have free access to all minds for their own **) purposes. Perfect game! No, I thank nature that she has build into our fabrique a certain kind of stubborness, mindlessness, and what do you have. I guess, it's a precaution of mother nature to get partly autonomous organisms, protected from overly dominant likes.

**) of course, they will never say so, it's all to YOUR benefit ...

Avoid communication, it will avoid confusion :))

To avoid any confusions, communicate straight from heart, involving as many senses as possible (eyes must). :) :) :)

Yes, eyes see and the heart knows. So let the heart decide "what to communicate" and eyes "how to communicate". :) :)

Hello

Thank you and all for the contribition - it has been since I last contributed to this discussion...

Well, Jaya - 'avoid communication' - allow me not to agree... we cannot avoid communication - we are social in our nature - and communication is a big part of it...

Well, communication can be recognised through our senses - well, I might say 'Good morning' to someone in a way that I might look like I am fighting with this person - so, it is not only what is said, but it is conveyed (in writing or verbally) that would affect the way this communication is passed or mistaken or miscommunicated.

Regards

Theodora Issa

I guess Madam Jaya must have commented (avoid communication...) at a lighter note. So, let us take her comment with the smileys at the end of her sentence.

Thanks.

Dear Manoj, I´ve no problem with Jaya´s humor. My interpretation of her remark is: You can exercise as long as it´s possible, each communication includes the possibility of a communication error (this time without smiley).

Well,

Thanks for the comments - I would say there is a saying 'if you do not commit any errors - that means you did not try anything'... and nothing is perfect under the sun - so, you might have errors while communicating...

Thanks and regards

Theodora Issa

@Hanno and Issa. Agreed. Communication is absolutely indispensable. In fact, human life runs on communication. It starts with one's birth and ends with death.

And sometimes, errors in communication are important too; they add spice to our lives. :):):).

Thanks.

"words are but pale shadows [of reality]"

hello my dear friend in my opinion It has been said that facts mean nothing unless they have been rightly understood, rightly related, and rightly interpreted. This column has often explored the many reasons miscommunication occurs. We've discussed the impact of culture, race, gender and age when it comes to people not being on the same communication page.

Yet, regardless of our many differences, there are specific tools that can help any professional communicate more effectively--particularly when it comes to giving direction or instructions to those you work or play with.

--It is important when communicating to make sure your intention is clear. The receiver of your message or instruction should know what the spirit of your communication is. Even if they are not exactly sure about the specifics of what you are saying, by being clear on your overall intent or motive, it helps them ask appropriate and relevant questions as well as make informed decisions.

--Communicate in a specific way about what you want the final product to be. This has to be even more detailed and specific than simply stating your intention. This is about tangible results. This is about a final outcome, product or service. For example, "By September 1, 2004, our team will increase sales revenue by 20 percent."

--When giving instruction or direction about money issues, don't say things like, "Spend as much as you need to in order to get the job done," unless you absolutely mean it. There are countless examples of managers and others who wind up flabbergasted when they get the final price tag for a particular project or purchase. Then, when a project manger says, "You said to spend whatever it takes," the boss says something like, "Yeah, but I never knew it would cost this much." To avoid such miscommunication, make sure you set a cap or a limit on how much you want to spend on a particular project. Then, create a feedback mechanism for your people to come back to you if they feel they need to go over-budget to get the job done.

--Context is critical. Since we are approaching summer, many organizations loosen their dress codes. Yet, this presents numerous communication challenges and potential issues. For example, some company policies will refer to "casual Fridays" and will tell employees to "dress comfortably." Sounds fine, right? But what happens if an employee comes in wearing flip flops and a tank top when you really meant walking shoes and open collared shirts? The problem is that words like "casual" attire are interpreted differently based on a lot of complex factors. You need to set a CONTEXT for employees not only by telling them specifically what attire is appropriate, but to communicate clearly that certain types of business activities that occur on Friday preclude the dress code policy.

--Differentiate between something that MUST be done as opposed to something you would PREFER to have done. For example, "Get to the office around 9:00 a.m." Is that a workforce guideline? Is 9:10 a.m. considered "around 9:00?" What about 9:30? Or, does it not matter much since you also tell employees we work until "about 5:00 p.m." but often expect them to be there much later if the workload requires it. It is great to have flexible work hours, but managers must communicate the difference between preferences and requirements. When you don't, you're writing a prescription for miscommunication, unnecessary conflict and frustrating confusion.

The key is to be more specific than you think you need to be. Never assume that your diverse workforce understands your instructions in the same way. That's what makes communication the complicated and fascinating craft that it is.

A very important issue was raised in the question:

How can we avoid CONFUSION in communication ?

Dear Tolga Soyata. Thank you very much for asking this very important question.It seems to me that it is good that there was a discussion in the question of this question.

This is a very interesting and scientifically important topic.

Because the topic is very important so I still read the answers, I follow the interesting discussion.

I answer an interesting question:

Yes, this is a very important issue. The issue of communication with the use of new online media is very important in the context of an efficiently run education process.

We are currently communicating widely across various online media, including via email. Some of the email mailboxes we use have anti-spam restrictions, which makes communication difficult. The development of communication through various online media, also through social media portals is an important issue in education. New media should be effectively used in the education process, but not always their technical specification is fully suitable for the needs of communication development in the context of the ongoing education process. However, as far as possible, new online media should be used in education, because young people use them widely and can be an excellent additional tool in the field of teaching instruments, eg for the purpose of efficiently searching for the necessary, current information.

I invite you to the discussion.