Very valid discussion have been started Dr Subarao ji.

Agrometeorolgy is interdisciplinary science which play a mjor role at different levels of crop production including weather forecast for rescheduling various operations, water management, nutrients management through precision farming and many more......

A challenging question. Following for the moment.

Kindly refer to the article: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222149113_Contribution_of_agrometeorology_to_the_simulation_of_crop_production_and_its_application

The link below seems relevant to the topic of the discussion thread.

https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4433/11/9/982/htm

Unless this new discipline include three major environmental issues: 1.) impact of atmospheric dust on weather patterns, and 2.) the impact of native plants that are the rain cloud-formers on the planet via the Pseudomonas bacteria, and 3.) Importance of maintaining intact native watersheds and healthy riparian native vegetation... it will be missing three of the most important items the dictate where we can conduct agriculture on the planet? For the Pseudomonas issue read https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/does-rain-come-from-life-in-the-clouds

These issues are escially important for India, since the monsoon's rain is created from the Pseudomonas living on the leaves of the forest trees of SE Asia, and those trees are being chopped down to plant oil palm plantations. Also the "Pakistan-Arabia Dust Cloud" for centuries have been producing the droughts and floods in India, and it is more powerful than a Category-5 cyclone, that you can see at http://www.ecoseeds.com/GONU.html

That first sentence should read--These issues are especially important...

Following!

Dear Dr. Sompal ji my question is for bringing out the new kind of out of box thinking / approaches in the field of Agromet.

Dr. Gulbir singh ji this paper deals with one part of Agrometeorology...It explains about the simulation part, which can provide us a kind of information with many assumptions...for policy making it may help...but as per the realistic world the problems are many...a wholistic approach is the real exigency.

Dear Dr. Aristidis Matsoukis we are trying many way to bring resilience in many crops in different ways under one National project - NICRA (http://www.nicra-icar.in/nicrarevised/). The experiments are conducted across the country under a selected location with a climatic extreme with selected major crops in the location followed by involving many agriculture research related institutes/ organizations at central and state level as well as regional level. These things providing very valuable information right now. But, for the future climate change scenarios , there is a need to consider some of the basic crop info need to be generated by agromet experiments such as the cardinal points of different crops...I hope they are changing and the same is required for breeding people for bring in the resilience in crop sensitivity for the future climates...

Good info Dr. Craig Carlton Dremann . Actually in our institute our colleagues done some research on Pseudomonas and popularized in drylands. Let me come out with those results.

Mainly in the prediction of the weather, especially in peaks or extremes that are the most damaging to agriculture, such as: drought, frost, hail. But also to feed climate models to make general climate predictions and scenarios.

Abburi VM Subbarao -- Here in California we commonly use Pseudomonas to make artificial snow for ski areas... So instead of Silver iodide crystals, I would fly Pseudomonas into areas where the relative humidity has reached very close to the dew point, maybe with 3-5 deg. F. and use the bacteria to do some cloud seeding? I think it would be about 1,000 times more effective in producing rain clouds. Has anyone tried this method so far?

Silver iodide requires rain clouds to begin however, the Pseudomonas cloud seem to only need moisture in the air very close to the dew point, and does not seem limited to a maximum air temperature.

That way, wherever the India monsoon moisture does not form clouds, like in the NW part of the country... because of the lack of natural vegetation containing the Pseudomonas like in the THAR desert, that moisture could be harvested by turning it into rain clouds again? Then, to make that action permanent, replanting the Pseudomonas host plants, to keep that system functioning without outside inputs? Image of a new Pseudomonas rain cloud getting born here in California

Sofar we have never tried this, If it is successful in your area and if you might have published then kindly forward the publication to me ...

The other option, is to discover which plants that grow in the forests of the Western Ghats that produce the rain clouds... and plant more of those upwind of wherever you need future rainfall, like the eastern edge of the THAR desert for example? One square kilometer of those plants could produce rain clouds for about 1,000 square kilometer--the most efficient cloud-seeders on the planet and they work for free, 24 hours, seven days a week!

Instead of waiting for someone else to write any scientific papers, your country's need for fresh water is getting more severe every day... so a major investment in experiments of cloud seeding with Pseudomonas PLUS investing in discovering what your natural Pseudomonas rain producing trees are, will be the key to the future survival of the Indian people, if they do not want to leave when the rainfall stops in part of your country? You do not want to end up like the Indus Valley people, when the rainfall stopped, and ALL 1,000 cities were abandoned? Or like here in North America, when the Anasazi of the Southwest abandoned all of their pueblos and never returned?

“the Pseudomonas cloud seem to only need moisture in the air very close to the dew point“

if you could please send any report or publication you may have?

Dhafer A. Al-Bakre -- See article at Discover Magazine https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/does-rain-come-from-life-in-the-clouds

Here in California while we have been in a 20-year drought, that is how the ski areas have been making artificial snow, using Pseudomonas. And also see https://asm.org/Articles/2019/January/Snow-Is-Coming-Whats-That-Have-to-Do-with-Microbe

The second article at the end, mentions using Pseudomonas to make rain, and the caution that they suggest, is why I make the recommendation of only using the Pseudomonas when your humidity is very close to the dew point, but rain is not predicted, only maybe only a few showers.

You want a situation where there is a lot of moisture in the air, like over 75% relative humidity at night. Then also at night, when the difference between the dew point and the air temperature is only 3-5 degrees F.

For example, in Tabuk, KSA tonight, there is only a 10% chance of rain, with a night temp. of 63 deg.F. (17 deg. C.) and a relative humidity of 54%, so that means a dew point of 46 deg. F. (8 deg. C.) at http://www.dpcalc.org and weather.com

On the Arabian Peninsula, you will have moisture coming over from India frequently, and nights too hot to produce rainclouds naturally.

But if the Pseudomonas was added by aircraft when the air temp was within 3-5 degrees F. of the dew point, you should be able to produce rain every time.

For example on Sunday in Salalah, Oman... there is only a 20% chance of natural rainfall that night. But the forecast night temp will be 74 deg. F (23 deg. C.) and the humidity 79%, so the dew point will be perfect at 62 deg. F (17 deg. C.)

A helicopter or airplane with a few pounds of the Pseudomonas bacteria used to make snow at the ski areas here in California, could produce rain that night.

All during the summer, whenever the night relative humidifies on the Arabian peninsula go over 75% would be the time to check and see if the night temps. are close, then start flying aircraft with Pseudomonas?

KSA has the highest recorded dew points on the planet, and your country could use that to your advantage, by wringing out that moisture, by adding the Pseudomonas bacteria to create those rain clouds for you?

Tonight in Amman Jordan, the relative humidity will be 78% and the temp. 58 Deg. F., so the dew point is 50 deg. F. --So if someone was prepared to fly Pseudomonas in the next few nights, they could produce some rain clouds.

Instead the people in Jordan must to wait for the natural rainfall to occur on Thursday, when they could have had 4-5 days of rainfall when the dew point was right, when there was enough moisture for the Pseudomonas to condense into rainclouds this week, between Wednesday and Sunday?

Dear Craig Carlton Dremann , really you have provided very valuable information about use of Pseudomonas bacteria in artificial rainmaking in organic way. I have to discuss with my fellow researchers and we also will plan like this.

The name of the commercial product used here in the USA for snow making is called "Snomax" and it is the protein shell of the Pseudomonas at http://www.snomax.com -- What I would do is when you have hot weather with very high humidity and use the "Snomax" and use it like you would dry ice or silver iodide, and distribute it with aircraft.

This summer, I studied 120 cities in the path of the Indian monsoon moisture from India to Morocco--which ones have adequate moisture flowing overhead, but the lack of the native Pseudomonas tropical forest host plants does not allow the rain clouds to form over these areas all of the time.

Below is my list of India cities, that this summer had night time temperatures within 1-5 deg. F. of their dew points without rainfall, and instead were unbearably humid both day and night. Each of these cities could have rain clouds form by aircraft adding the Pseudomonas proteins into the moisture, or could have rain clouds forming naturally by replanting the original Pseudomonas native host plants.

One grams of the Snomax could potentially produce 10 million grams of rainfall, that is how powerful that bacteria's protein is!

Along with replanting the native Pseudomonas native host plants, the barren soils like at the edge of the THAR desert must be covered with native vegetation, to insulate the soil, so that the night air temperatures can get closer to the dew point, and that will help form rainclouds also.

INDIA CITIES ± 1-5 deg. F. from dew point, summer 2020:

Ahmedabad, Amritsar, Bhuj, Diu, Gandhinagar, Jaipur, Jamnagar, Jodhpur, Ludhiana, New Delhi, Porbandar, Raijkot, and Udaipur

Thanks so much Craig Carlton D!

dense fog occurs in top mountains in our area, so it probably works well there, but I am not sure if Wind speed can affect on successful this experiment?

In Tabuk, you are not in the ideal area to easily do this experiment, because your relative humidity is not high enough for get the night temp. close to the dew point. For example tonight, the forecast from https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/Tabuk+Tabuk+Saudi+Arabia is 52 deg. F. with relative humidity of 51%, which means the dew point is just at the freezing point of 32 def. F. or 0 deg. C.

When I did my study of the 120 potential cities for rain making earlier this year, in KSA on the particular day of the study, Abha, Al Lith, Jizan, Suqah, and Makkah were still 14 deg. F. away from the dew point, so unlikely that the addition of Pseudomonas would produce rain, because there is not enough moisture to precipitate.

However, if you set up a wiki weather station on the top of the mountain where fog occurs, you might obtain the correct dew point to conduct the experiment, and winds would help disperse the pseudomonas better. You also might find that there are plants on that mountain that are the natural Pseudomonas host plants, and if you find them and start planting more of them, have the rainfall get produced naturally that way.

If you can get out there during a rain event, when the rain stops for a few minutes, look for clouds raising out of the forest or vegetation--that is the Pseudomonas forming a new rain cloud as they get airborne from the force of the rain drops hitting the leaves. The rain cloud could also be getting formed from mushroom spores getting airborne, so look for this also?

The agriculture around depends on fossil water underground, but that also means that the headwaters of that watershed has the greatest potential to get rainfall started again, as you are speculating where the fog forms in the mountains. The fog is trying to give you a hint--"Come over here and add some Pseudomonas and some more native vegetation, and I will produce some rain for you?" It might be trying to tell you.

If I was going to do this project, I would work in two of the local headwaters, pictures attached. The one southwest of town and the one south of town.

And build some 1/2 meter tall check dams across a few of those dry wadis, and see what happens--if it increases the native vegetation in the area like the project along the coast at Al Baydha that you can watch at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T39QHprz-x8

Every dry wadi that exists across the entire country of KSA, should have these rock check dams built, and that would slow down any flash floods, and allow that water to sink and replenish the aquifer that your town's wells depend on for agriculture. Picture from the Al Baydha project on the west coast of KSA.

That was supposed to read a "WIFI" weather station. You might be able to get some funding from the government.

Dear Craig Carlton Dremann,

Thanks for your prompt reply.

I agree with you regarding Tabuk area , but I hint to Namas area which is located on top Sarwawat mountains, western south KSA. There are lots of Juniperus procera forests and in the recent year, they expose to drought effects, two fire events were reported and caused the loss of hundreds hectares of forests.

Regarding to getting a fund from the government for using Pseudomonas bacteria, could you please send the estimate of expenses of this project? My email:

[email protected]

And whether you are willing to corporate with me, I would appreciate it so much.

Kind regards,

Dhafer

Fallow the question

I would start by monitoring the daily cloud formations in KSA on... http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/indian/movies/m5irn/m5irn_loop.html

and watch each section of the loop, and note when the Pseudomonas clouds form from the native plants in various areas.

And then try and located exactly where those Pseudomonas host plants live, and visit during rain so you can physically see the clouds forming from a specific species of plant.

For the funding source...view the video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T39QHprz-x8 there is an update on the Al Baydha project that was funded by members of the Royal family, and contact them? Ask for as much as you can get, maybe to sustain you for at least two and maybe three years.

Looking at your past work, you might be perfect to do these studies in KSA because you know the plants so well.

Attached are four Pseudomonas clouds coming off the native vegetation from this week's tropic.ssec.wisc.edu images.... If you discover which plants are forming your rain clouds, you will be the first person on the planet to know what the Pseudomonas host plants are?

By discovering those plants and replanting them for every square kilometer you can plant back, could produce 1,000 square kilometers of rain clouds for agriculture and other uses. My email is [email protected]

You can start by checking the daily images from... http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/imagemain.php?&basin=indian&sat=m5&prod=irn

and http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/imagemain.php?&basin=indian&prod=wvbbm&sat=m5

and http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/imagemain.php?&basin=indian&prod=wv&sat=m5

--So you can see when the water vapor activates the Pseudomonas bacteria on the native plants to form the distinctive clouds? Images of one of those clouds forming yesterday.

Then, take a trip and see if you can located the host plants creating the rain clouds?

This coming week (November 22-30, 2020) a tropical storm is going east to west to the south of Arabia right now, and if you watch the images... at http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/imagemain.php?&basin=indian&sat=m5&prod=irn

...you can watch as the moisture hits the few remaining Pseudomonas host plants in Arabia, and create new rain clouds?

Here is what ground-based cloud seeding equipment looks like, using silver iodide and for India or KSA maybe could run on automatic, when the conditions are right to make rain clouds occur? If this would work, read the story about the cloud seeding in our Nevada deserts, where a $25 investment can produce an acre-foot of water (1.2 million liters). Check and see if anyone is using these cloud seeding machines in your country currently? In the Western USA it is usually only used in the winter to produce snow, but in India or KSA, could be used all year.

Craig Carlton Dremann really you are a practical man working with different countries it seems. the information you are providing is very useful. our people are using Pseudomonas for agricultural purpose only. I may insist this kind of research in our country. lot many thanks. further expecting from you...

Abburi VM Subbarao, can you please tell me how your people are using Pseudomonas for agricultural purpose?

As bio-control agent.