Dear friends, I truly believe that NOT a single group must be repressed. This is justice as human conscience sees it. You may agree or disagree, but do join the discussion. Thanks.

Dear Miranda

In India, we have caste system. There is a most vulnerable group of people called scheduled castes (SC) and scheduled tribes (ST), which in all are about 22 percent of Indian population. SCs have been, and in reality continue to be, seen as untouchables by the highest castes for centuries. There are so many stories of their repression.

I have lived in a small village of Delhi till I was 20 years. In this village there were about 150 houses, of which about 30 houses were of the SCs. Despite Constitutional protection, they could not share a well, a temple, and other community services with the upper castes. They have no land like the other castes. They lived in ghettos on a fringe of the village. They were/are basically sweepers, animal skin flayers, etc. My heart would bleed to see them in that state. .

Even as I left the village some 44 years ago, they are all there living in same houses, but perhaps in a bit better state..

Few good things have changed the life of some of the SCs in general in the country. I think, the community will take several decades to come up with some semblance of equivalence. These good things have improved their position, though not exponentially, but in good measure.

1. To me, the best thing for them is the emergence of Dr BR Ambedkar, who was a SC himself, and was also one of the architects of the Indian constitution. He saw to it that the Constitution made provision of free education for SC/ST children with reservation of seats for them and scholarships for their education at all levels.

2. The Constitution also provides reservation of jobs for them in government and public sector (15% for SCs and 7.5 % for STs)

3. There is reservation of seats for them in Parliament and legislative councils, on which people from other castes can not contest elections. So some leaders have emerged to take up their cause.

4. A powerful leader named Ms. Mayawati has come up to give them a voice. She has been instrumental in providing them still better protection in terms of awareness of their rights and realization of the importance of political power.

I feel, but for these four factors, their condition would have been vulnerable beyond imagination.

Thanks so much @Debi. I know a little about caste system. Knowing a little isn't much good so thanks for adding to my knowledge. Perhaps quite a few of us on RG also come from poor families, and a vulnerable background.

Wonderful Prof Kamal. Thanks for your kind words. I can't say much, just read the link above, thanks.

Yes, dear Prof Kamal. I believe this is so. But I don't understand why certain people are not willing to give justice to minority groups; certain groups within caste system. Don't they have a conscience that works, and a right reasoning?

Dear all,

reading the post of Debi my heart is bleeding too (knowing that common "historical and religious" beliefs might be the culprit...- correct me if I am wrong -...and the individual - if he/she cannot inspire, fill with enthusiasm and gather a huge human movement - cannot change such "class behaviour").

Reading other reports all day about "war", "slaughters" and smear-campaigns between religious groups or (humn?) tribes in several countries (you know certainly about) - irrespective "who" violates "whom": my heart bleeds.

Sucess of any community or country in depressing any group (being it for religious, economic, political or other reasons) perhaps in the first place will be a "function of power" in the hands of the "depressor" and the "secretly interested and profiting supporters / agents " in the background.

In our country in the times of "Age of Enlightenment" (mainly 18th century) the emperors (and their governmental authorities) established rules providing also religious liberty and other basic human rights (knowing that not all was right these times!).... the process took its time, nearly 400 years to end up with democracy and relatively given personal security/safeness as of today (yet not all optimal!)

cf. e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment .

But I am happy to be citizen of and am able to live with my family and relatives in this my country

Regards, Wolfgang (Austria/Europe)

Dear Miranda, Kamal and Wolfgang

Indeed, if we can ensure equal opportunity to all in reality, I think several vices from the world would go away. You will agree that we academics have a special obligation to counsel and guide our students and instil values in them of compassion, humaneness, empathy, justice, fairness and no-discrimination policies, among others. Perhaps, the job of the primary school teacher is still more important in this regard, as that is a stage when the child is looking for heroes. But we can also do in whatever way we can contribute.

May be our RG club can take up this cause in our own humble way so that it makes some impact!

Miranda, this is a very delicate yet important question, coming from a calculated statement from the president of the USA. There are two words in his statement that need to be clearly defined- "succeed" and "repressed". If success is to be measured in terms of "development", records will show what the developed, developing and underdeveloped countries are. If repression is to be understood as "military", facts will also show which countries in the world are still under "strong-arm" regimes. But if we take success from different contexts like "ability not to be influenced by foreign nations", and repression as "religious, gender and racial, height, weight, language, civil status, income, etc. discrimination", we cannot have official records of these because many of them operate under a "code of silence". Ed

Dear friends, thanks for taking this matter seriously.

@Debi: 'if we can ensure equal opportunity to all in reality, I think several vices from the world would go away. You will agree that we academics have a special obligation to counsel and guide our students and instill values in them of compassion, humaneness, empathy, justice, fairness and no-discrimination policies, among others'....and 'May be our RG club can take up this cause in our own humble way so that it makes some impact!'

At least RG is a forum of all kinds of academics, who can discuss sensibly and fairly.

Dear Miranda

The restriction of freedom of expression is violation of human rights and must always be fought. The people should be united with a single goal: to improve living conditions, independent of the characteristics of each citizen or segment of the population. Progress with oppression of citizens is unacceptable and inhuman.

I can not answer this question because in my country things are radically different. One part of the population does not want to socialize and does not want to educate while the government and society are trying all possible ways to finance them, support, educate and make them comply with the terms of society. The pouring of resources in this case does not prove successful way. But enough of me to not stay without account.

Depress can be obvious (like India) or hidden (like Greece). Here we have a similar to India caste system, although it is not so clearly declared as in India. What is this? It is simply the procedure of "parents giving to children":

1)the highest government positions (all prime ministers have been sons from a distinct family)

2)the highest academic positions, especially in Medicine (the Athens department is full of similar surnames)

3)the largest income, by merging similar companies with "weddings" and other issues

4)the safest professions, the so called "closed professions"

The above are a partial explanation for the fall of Greece during last centuries (comparing it with its glorious past...)

Thanks @Nelson, Valentina and Demetris. You have raised many fine points:

' Progress with oppression of citizens is unacceptable and inhuman.'

Demetris, thanks for your 4 points ! Amazing but true.

Debi gave first-hand information on the caste people in India. I am glad to see progress is taking place.

Can someone comment of situation of the other ethnic groups than Malays in Malaysia?

@Huajiang, just read the link on this question, and read the articles on Wikipedia. Has anyone refuted those articles? No.

Not in a civilised country in modern times.

However, such a country could be very successul in the past. There are ample examples. The Roman empire oppressed so many people and rob other lands of wealth to stay very successul and prosperous. Another bigger empire colonised half of the world and ruled many countries, and it remained the most successful country at the time for many years.

I think a country can still stay successful for a period even if or becuase it oppresses part of its peopleor other people (a sad fact), but we humans should not bulid our success and prosperity at the expen of part of us. So we have to redefine success. One indicator of success is human development and equality. Looking at his indicator, some richer/stronger countries are not very successful.

For an ordinary person, stealing to become rich is condemed.

Many kings and emporers are hailed as good rulers but their kingdoms and empires kill oher people, steal and rob resources and wealth from other people and countries. The Roman empires invaded and plundered many places. But it was considered a notable civlisation.

What we need to know is that segments will always exist. However, a single person does not represent a group and even within a problematic group people are not all the same. There are always people who want to help and aim for a better environment and investing in those people should be a must. Nobody should determine that a specific race, culture or segment is bad for a given location. What needs to be done is empower them and allow them to take part in planning and developing of new ideas that can either benefit them and the whole community. This is how, in theory, everyone should act. The best interest should be the better for everybody. When people learn that everyone will benefit and societies will develop in all sorts of ways at a very fast pace.

Thanks dear friends, for your views. I think we should all be concerned. Even when such repressions or marginalizations are happening in other countries, to other people. We should feel for them and care for them. Wherever it happens because we are now a global village.

Today I have no computer access. So I have to do everything on a small mobile surface area.

Sent from mobile.

You are right, dear Miranda,

We, human beings, are like capillary vessels- we are in pain, when our brothers are in pain.

Oppressed people cannot advance or evolve or develop their environment.

Human creation to be free and human responsibility towards society to support and built the country. The reason for the success is the creativity and free thought.

If people ever wanted to live a free life, it must be equally responsive. I personally if I have no freedom can’t survive or innovate. I believe governments and their allies should release its repressed on all segments in order for the whole country achieves success.

A clear differentiation and/or distinction needs to be made between (un)legislated discrimination!

All communities are differentially infected and/or infested by discrimination!

Period!

Thanks Irina, Hashem, Tobias et al., for your posts.

@Tobias, you have give it a great name. This repressions are Infections or diseases. It will likely result in ill effects for the countries with such practice...

Hashem, I fully agree with you.

It is not easy for the repressed people to write their destiny by themselves alone. They need education , first of all. They also need a lot of support from government, community, intellectuals, and their own peers. They feel themselves in marsh or swamp, and feel that when they are trying to come out of it, they seem to be going more into it.

So unless there are people/agencies that can take up their cause or what Tobias would say as facilitative and not discriminatory legislation, mere action may not do. For, every one likes to live in their comfort zone of the past exploitative framework, and have a general disinclination to go against the wave.

Bravo Prof Debi! Well said.

'It is not easy for the repressed people to write their destiny by themselves alone. They need education , first of all. They also need a lot of support from government, community, intellectuals, and their own peers. '

We need the good Samaritans, with passion and concern to turn the tide. 'For, every one likes to live in their comfort zone of the past exploitative framework, and have a general disinclination to go against the wave.'

Dear Miranda,

Unfortunately, I cannot understand what you mean under segment, repression and the duration of time period (1000 – 5000 years, 100-500 years, 1-10 years)? I do not think that president Obama’s speech would focus for more than some years. Regarding Debi’s comprehensive example, this situation is/was permanent for a long time and started several 1000 (?) years ago.

Dear Miranda,

The evangelic story on the charitable Samaritan mentioned the example of an individual and not a population. There are many right human examples but these cannot be really appropriate to your question.

We need merciful Samaritans as examples but rather good laws and wide education. Please remember the New Testament! What did Jesus? He taught/educated the people with parabolas like that of the Samaritan.

Dear Debi,

What about the concrete progression in the destiny of SCs and STs? People from other castes are ready to marry sons and daughters of SCs? Are there a population moving making possible for members of SC to get the same rights and opportunities in life as the other Indian people have?

Friends, Andras et al., if you REALLY read the link that I posted on the Q, you will know the situation in my country. But I have just highlighted the situation in Myanmar (or Burma). Obama's speech is about now...

Dear Miranda,

Everything is clear.

Well there are people who are becoming new Buddhists and getting good  opportunities to leade there  life equal to other community. Their background is fully developed state of prospores but for better in comparing 50 year back .