Ask indiana jones

Thanks, Peter, i think you are joking. Regarding the Ark, i read that it may be located in Thasos, Greece (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/10/an-unbelievable-ark-of-th_n_1085987.html). Other article says that it may be located somewhere under the Golgota.

But, i do not hear similar news concerning the possible location of Menorah.

Anyway, i like Indiana Jones too. Best wishes

Victor, you might find the following book helpful:

The Ark Of The Covenant: The True Story of the Greatest Relic of Antiquity by Roderick Grierson Stuart Munro-Hay

The book provides a very interesting discussion of the Ark in Jewish, Islamic and Ethiopian Christian tradition.

For example, in Chp. 10, the authors comment on how references to the Ark also drop out of the Hebrew Bible outside the historical books, with only two other references in Psalm 132, and Jeremiah.

dear Kathleen, thank you for your reference. I will try to look for that book. best wishes

I remember reading somewhere that the Romans took it back  home wi th them after the sack of Jerusalem and carried it in triumph as shown in a relief on the Arch of Titus. Another account has it being carried off from Rome to north africa by the barbarians when they sacked Rome in the fifth century.  When the Byzantines under Justinian reconquer parts of the western empire including north africa it was liberated  from the barbarians in turn and disappeared on the way back to Constantinople. I cannot document this informtion.

Two issues, Victor.  The following item from the much maligned Wikipedia may give you some textual pointers in your search.

Firstly, I think it unlikely that the menorah from the second temple was the same as the one from the first temple.  You may want to confirm if references to the menorah disappear for a time from the Hebrew texts, in the same way as references to the Ark of the Covenant disappear from the later Biblical books.

As to the menorah from the second temple, the below article suggests that it was brought back to Constantinople, so you may want to check for any references in Procopius to what Belisarius brought back from North Africa, and see if you can find any later references to a return of the menorah to Jerusalem.

One place you could look would be the Suda, available online; http://www.stoa.org/sol/; a kind of Byzantine Encyclopaedia.  You can search without having to log on.

Kathy

"The original menorah was made for the Tabernacle, and the Bible records it as being present until the Israelites crossed the Jordan river. When the Tabernacle is pitched in Shiloh (Joshua 18:1), it assumed that the menorah was also present. However, no mention is made of it during the years that the Ark of the Covenant was moved in the times of Samuel and Saul. There is no further mention of the menorah in Solomon's temple, except in (2 Chronicles 4:7) as he creates ten lampstands. These are recorded as being taken away to Babylon by the invading armies under the general Nebuzar-Adan (Jeremiah 52:19) some centuries later.

"During the restoration of the Temple worship after the 70-year captivity in Babylon, no mention is made of the return of the menorah but only of "vessels" (Ezra 1:9-10). Since the Temple was an enclosed place with no natural light, some means of illumination must have existed.

"The Book of Maccabees records that Antiochus Epiphanes took away the lampstands (plural) when he invaded and robbed the Temple (1 Maccabees 1:21). The later record of the making of "new holy vessels" may refer to the manufacture of new lampstands (1 Maccabees 4:49). There is no biblical mention of the fate of the menorah.

"The fate of the menorah used in the Second Temple is recorded by Josephus, who states that it was brought to Rome and carried along during the triumph of Vespasian and Titus. The menorah was deposited afterwards in the Temple of Peace in Rome.

"Most likely, the menorah was looted by the Vandals in the sacking of Rome in 455 CE, and taken to their capital, Carthage.[9] The Byzantine army under General Belisarius might have removed it in 533 and brought it to Constantinople. According to Procopius, it was carried through the streets of Constantinople during Belisarius' triumphal procession. Procopius adds that the object was later sent back to Jerusalem where there is no record of it, although it could have been destroyed when Jerusalem was pillaged by the Persians in 614." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menorah_(Temple)).

Dear Leroy and Kathleen: thank you so much for the clues. Yes, Suda online is very interesting. Do you know other ancient document to search for? Thanks

http://studiumanistici.unipv.it/seth/ej/%5eJucci%20-%20L%27arca%20dell%27Alleanza%20(in%20Bonvecchio,%20Claudio%20cur.%20-%20La%20Filosofia%20di%20Indiana%20Jones%20-%20Mimesis%202011).pdf

chttp://kammeo.blogspot.it/search/label/menorah

http://kammeo.blogspot.it/search/label/arca%20dell%E2%80%99alleanza

the www.templeinstitute.org is a reliable reference

recall the maccabees had to make the Menorah out of spits during Temple II, till nicer one/s could be made. 

Josephus antiquities and artscroll Chanukah

There were many Menorahs in Temple 1, the one from the the Tabernacle of Moses made by Bezalel mst likely hidden away mid Temple I along w/ the Ark.

any Ark in Africa likely from the Temples constructed in Egypt during the Ptolemic period.

Are you all members of Dan Brown's research team for his new book?

Any scientific researcher should avoid to spend effort in such romance. Please keep this out from researchgate. This is for a website for scientists not hobbyists!

The Message of the Menorah / Chanukah is to shed light on the actuality. Understanding the actuality behind the natural observations is a definition/goal of science.

So in some aspects the topic of the Menorah is very much interrelated with science.

Thank you, Roger. Best wishes

Thanks Marcel. Best wishes

According to tradition it was hidden away during the first temple period, together with the Ark and other artifacts. Though the Menorah on the Arch of Titus looks very like the Menorah of the Bible (Exodus), it is assumed to be a replica.