Thanks Dr. Craig for sharing experiences of grassland ecosystem of desert, USA. You have rightly said earning from grassland through carbon credit. Factually in the India desert, grassland is dwindling due to the rising population demand better livelihood, quality produce and the land for infrastructure and industry.

Therefore we have proposed site specific alternate land uses. It consists of energy plantations on the dunes together with horticulture and dry farming in the inter-dunal plains. It has the dual purpose. On one hand the system preserves the ecosystem services by restricting wind erosion and enriching soil through carbon sequestration.On the other hand it provides better income to the desert dwellers through horticulture and dry farming. It also supports animal husbandry and rearing of small ruminant. Additional earning could be possible through carbon credit from non-arable land. Thus articulating the land use depending upon the local socio-economic condition is the basic idea for conceptualizing sustainable agriculture consisting of selecting land uses and management practices suitable to a specific site. As it is pointed out in my previous reply in the present discussion.

Your second observation regarding carbon in the sub-soils also has the great merit. We also have the similar kind of experience in the Indian desert, concealing the impressions of episodes of climate change in the past. I have mentioned some of them while discussing the topic on climate change.

These are the few points perhaps, it will help you in articulating the study on carbon sequestration in future

Good question , infact , both ways are correct , unfortunately we lay little emphasis on storing carbon into perennial framework of trees , especially fruit trees. And , emphasisze more on storing carbon into the soil , which is hardly achieved , so we are infact in dilemma . Unless carbon in soil is stored into passive soil carbon pool ,we will continue to fight with organic carbon- related soil health issues, although organic carbon alone in not the guarantee for higher vrop performance....

Both are correct because Carbon sequestration is a process of transferring the atmospheric CO2 into other long-lived global pools viz. oceanic, pedologic, biotic and geological strata and Passive pools of soil organic carbon (SOC) include most recalcitrant fraction of the soil organic matter they help to maintain the level of soil organic carbon.

Soil-carbon vs above-ground carbon, is that soil-carbon stays put longer...arid and desert native grasslands soil-carbon could be thousands to tens of thousands of years, whereas trees live and die at a much faster rate. Plus, there are one billion acres (400 million hectares) of deserts where the local native grasses could be replanted, to both sequester carbon, and cool the air by insulating the bare soil--see the drawing of a single grass plant in the Mojave desert cooling the soil surface. And replanting the grasses in the deserts eliminated dust storms, stopping the atmospheric dust from interfering with rain clouds and increases air temps.

If you read my work at https:www.ecoseeds.com/cool.html and https://www.ecoseeds.com/cool2.html -- you can see where replanting the desert native grasses to sequester carbon, may be the turning point for Global Warming for the planet.

Also, see https://www.ltrr.arizona.edu/~sleavitt/GreatPlainsSoils.htm

• Soil Carbon Sequestration and Age in the Historic Grasslands
• of the United States
• Ronald F. Follett, USDA/AARS Soil-Plant-Nutrient Research Unit, Fort Collins, CO 80522 [email protected]
• Eldor Paul, Natural Resource Ecology Laboratory, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 [email protected]
• Steven W. Leavitt, LTRR, The University of Arizona----
• This project was initiated to increase our knowledge of global change related to the role of soil organic carbon (SOC) in sequestering atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2), a greenhouse gas.
• The research focuses on the use of radiocarbon dating through accelerator mass-spectrometric measurement of SOC 14C activity to determine how long the carbon (C) has been sequestered in the soil.
• Radiocarbon dates of the SOC with profile depth from soil samples collected from grassland sites in CO, TX, MT NE, IA, MO, MN, OK, and ND were determined. Grassland sites were sampled by horizon to a depth of about 2 m.
• Nearly one-half of the total weight of SOC is in the top 20 cm and up to one-third can be in the top 10 cm of the soil. The remaining one-half is located from 20 to 200 cm below the surface.
• The mass of SOC was between 85-150 t ha-1 in the top 2 m of soil.
• These data show the importance of protecting near-surface soil and its associated SOC from loss.
• 14C dating of soil C indicates that the one-half of the SOC that is sequestered below 20 cm has mean residence times (MRT) that are greater than 1000 to 2000 years.
• Soil C at depths of about 2 m has MRT of 9000 to 13000 years, but accounts for only about five percent of the total. Thus, once sequestered, immense amounts of SOC have remained in soil profiles for a very long time.

Agreed with the reply of Dr. Craig, however, I would like to put up the reply in different way. Organic carbon sequestration potential is the storage capacity of soils in a land use system over a geographic setting. Factually soil organic carbon (SOC) oscillates between the upper and lower limit in a given geographic location. Selecting land use and associated management takes SOC to the maximum, whereas land use and associated management out of the capability domain pull SOC to the minimum . For example in the arid region of India silviculture and silvipasture in sandy soils took SOC very near to its maxima ( 4.2 kg/m2), whereas continuous cultivation of pearl millet pulls SOC to its lower limit (0.9 to 1.1 kg/m 2).

We could talk forever about abstract concepts about carbon sequestration, but RIGHT NOW, each country needs to see how useful this method could be, to help solve the global warming crisis?

For example, I am working here in the Western USA where we are grazing 250 million acres (100 million hectares) of desert grassland-shrublands down to the dust with about 14 million cattle, and the take-home net profit per acre for all of that work is only $2-30 per acre per year?

Grazing in desert lands or drylands farming in those areas, is a total waste of the native grassland-desert resources. Instead of being plowed or used as cow-chow, could be increasing the rainfall of those areas, cooling the planet, stopping the dust storms, and the ranchers/farmers help restore those ecosystems and sell the carbon credit produced.

I am suggesting that all of the barren and marginal deserts---everyone trying to graze or drylands-farm those lands, could instead be producing and selling carbon credits and make much more money per acre or per hectare, and would be the most sustainable method of utilizing lands on the planet?

Here are some of the dates of grassland soil carbon from Rodionov's paper "Black Carbon in Grassland Ecosystems" which has some surprising results.

At 10 cm or deeper, that carbon is usually between 500 and 1200 years, which is way past the lifespan of most trees?

Thanks Dr. Craig for sharing experiences of grassland ecosystem of desert, USA. You have rightly said earning from grassland through carbon credit. Factually in the India desert, grassland is dwindling due to the rising population demand better livelihood, quality produce and the land for infrastructure and industry.

Therefore we have proposed site specific alternate land uses. It consists of energy plantations on the dunes together with horticulture and dry farming in the inter-dunal plains. It has the dual purpose. On one hand the system preserves the ecosystem services by restricting wind erosion and enriching soil through carbon sequestration.On the other hand it provides better income to the desert dwellers through horticulture and dry farming. It also supports animal husbandry and rearing of small ruminant. Additional earning could be possible through carbon credit from non-arable land. Thus articulating the land use depending upon the local socio-economic condition is the basic idea for conceptualizing sustainable agriculture consisting of selecting land uses and management practices suitable to a specific site. As it is pointed out in my previous reply in the present discussion.

Your second observation regarding carbon in the sub-soils also has the great merit. We also have the similar kind of experience in the Indian desert, concealing the impressions of episodes of climate change in the past. I have mentioned some of them while discussing the topic on climate change.

These are the few points perhaps, it will help you in articulating the study on carbon sequestration in future

Very interesting discussion. We need both - carbon sequestration in the soil as explained by several colleagues and lock more carbon in trees, particularly forest trees. But that does mean that we should underestimate the contribution of fruit trees in locking up carbon.

Tree-sequestered carbon and soil-sequestered native desert grassland carbon are existing in two separate universes...For example, the thousands of years that native desert grasses can lock up carbon in the soil is unparalleled on the planet vs. only hundreds of years by trees.

And then the potential to utilize the massive numbers of hectares of desert lands, that currently only provide a very marginal living by grazing or dryland-farming, and convert them into carbon-credit producing "Ecological Restoration and Carbon Sequestration Preserves", is also unparalleled--about 400 million hectares, or about one billion acres!

Furthermore, once those deserts have their native grasses replaced, that will automatically start cooling the planet, by insulating the surface. The additional benefit, is by cooling the surface, you change the dew point a few degrees, which will allow rain clouds to form.

The cities on the edges of the world's deserts, are suffering from excessive heat and humidity in the summer, combined with a lack of reliable fresh water supplies for their millions of inhabitants. The replanting of the native grasses and wildflowers could bring rainfall, cooler temperatures and more fresh water supplies.

I did a study this summer to find where those easy potentials exist, and by replanting the local native grasses and wildflowers within a , and just cooling the air a few degrees, here are cities where the annual rainfall could double or triple each year:

Algeria-Algiers, Algeria-Blida, Algeria-Medea, Algeria-Tizi Ouzou, Egypt-Alexandria, Egypt-Cairo, Eritrea-Asmara, India-Ahmedabad, India-Amritsar, India-Bhuj, India-Diu, India-Gandhinagar, India-Jaipur, India-Jodhpur, India-Ludhiana, India-New Delhi, India-Porbandar, India- Raijkot, India-Udaipur, India- Jamnagar, Israel-Ashkelon, Israel-Beersheba, Israel-Haifa, Israel-Tel Aviv, Libya-Al 'Urubah, Libya-Al Baida' (Bayda), Libya-Marj, Libya-New Brega, Libya-Ra's Lanuf, Libya-Tobruk, Morocco-Casablanca, Morocco-Rabat, Oman-Muscat, Oman-Salalah, Pakistan-Hyderabad, Pakistan-Karachi, Palestine-Gaza Strip, Palestine-West Bank, Somalia-Mogadishu, Tunisia-Tunis, W. Sahara-El Aaiun, and Yemen-Sana'a.

Anyone reading this, who lives in these cities, know what I mean--day and night high temperatures, combined with humidities in the 90% range? Just cool things down around your cities in a 10-20 kilometer radius, and plant native trees within your cities, so you hit 100% relative humidity, and get rain instead?

This is a list of cities where very adequate amounts of moisture flow overhead all summer, but cannot produce rainfall until the ground is insulated with native plants, to change the air temperature a few degrees--that then brings the dew point where the water vapor can form rain clouds, instead of making everyone swear, sweat and suffer?

Sandy low organic matter soils are a good place for soil carbon sequestration.

The capacity can be optimized by using perennial plants and ensuring that amendment to remove mineral limitations.

Silt and clay can be used to give getter ability to capture and maintain water and start the regenerating process.

In old acid soils found in the tropics the ability of liming can be critical as well as the addition of charcoals and composted materials.

Craig Dremann...

Thats well taken , life carbon sequestered through trees versus pasture land but look at the ecosystem service plus the economic value of maketable products we get out of these trees on an annual basis. Nutrition and food security issues also come into picture , not the sequestered carbon alone , unless economically quantified....

If you are planting fruit trees they are usually spaced several meters apart--that is where the native perennial grasses and wildflower could be planted back as ground-covers, to start sequestering carbon for carbon credits and for the benefits of the trees, and to lower the amount of weed management under the trees?

Each county has from 1,000 to 2,000 different species of wildflowers and native grasses to choose from, and are among the most under-appreciated plants on the planet. And the wildflowers growing underneath the fruit trees, will greatly help the pollination, and also attract other beneficial insects that could help control pests. I was a bee keeper, and know how important the wildflowers are, that work to also help get our crop plants pollinated.

Dr. Craig,

Thanks for sharing your experiences from the desert of USA. It is very good work to be replicated elsewhere depending upon the socio-economic conditions. You have also referred Thar desert of India. I have spent sometimes in the desert part of India and begin the discussion with a brief geo-logical history and their impacts.

The successive geo-logical events resulted the evolution of Himalayas in three cycles. (Greater middle and lower Himalaya). Simultaneously Aravallis and Myanmar plateau was uplifted. River course was shifted and Thar desert came into existence covering apart of Gujarat, Rajasthan, Punjab and Haryana. The large part on 1 lac 96000 hectare is mapped in Rajasthan.

The heated westerly's from Ran of Kutch during summer was partially arrested and reverted back into the main land of deserted. The impact could be seen as scorching summer not only in the desert but also in Delhi and in the adjoin area of Uttar Pradesh. This is accounted for high temperature during the day and night. Proportionately restriction on the movement of moist westerly's during winter was more pronounce. Perhaps it accounts for painful weather in Delhi during October and November and scattered winter rains at places in the desert.

For combating the temperature, attempt has been made. Aravalli has been made greener (Rajasthan- Gujarat section). Extensive plantations have been initiated on the dunes (Western Rajasthan). Shelterbelts were planned and executed. Water was pumped through canals even the part of Jodhpur district (referred by Craig). The impact could be seen as blossoming agriculture on the one hand and accelerated desertification on the other hand. As soon as water was made available, traditional dryland was converted into commercial agriculture. Extensive network of road, buildings and industry came in. Stabilized Parabolic dunes became susceptible to wind erosion and grassland was brought under the plow. The problems of salinity and water logging increased manifold.

Therefore, we introduced site specific sustainable land use models depending upon the socio-economic conditions and the availability resources. Wood and energy plantations were suggested on the dunes, hills and other common property owned by the Govt. Good agriculture practices were suggested on the land owned by farmers. Our study indicated that organic carbon status was increased below the canopy of cotton. This was attributed to reduced temperature and cooling effect as a result of high transpiration. Apart from this, extensive plantations of fruits suitable under dryland conditions was done.

As pointed out in my previous reply, carbon sequestration was reported higher under silviculture and silvipasture system of alternate land uses. (Please read my work available on research gate published in arid land research and Management and in the Journal arid environment). Frequency of wind storm is reported to be reduced. The plantations made on the hills and dunes and/or other non-arable land could be attempted for carbon credit in future. This will be the additional income apart from fruit, wood and grain. Grass cuttings were found useful to support animals.

Thus good agriculture, horticulture and energy plantations with support of canal and fossils water is blossoming in the desert. The movement to earn money through carbon credit is yet to be taken by the farmers

Over and above, the impact of site specific land use model relating to rainfall and cloudburst is yet to perceive and monitor.

The "Frosting on the cake" as we say here in the USA, or the "Cherry on the top" when you are doing ANY kind of planting for carbon sequestration, is to add the local native Pseudomonas host plants...that create the rainfall for the area. See the article at https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/does-rain-come-from-life-in-the-clouds -- the increase in the rainfall, will help the plants grow, that will sequester carbon better.

Then, also make sure that ALL of the soil is covered with some kind of vegetation, to keep the sun hitting any bare soil, that would heat that soil, then heating the air. That means instead of plowing to plant, plant into plant residues for example. Always keep a mulch cover or a plant cover on the earth at all times.

Where does the higher Global Warming air temperatures come from? Bare soils in arid lands and in the subtropics and tropics.

If water vapor not forming clouds, and is going overhead every day in summer, like the THAR desert, then covering the soil with mulch and/or native vegetation PLUS the Pseudomonas host plants, can double or triple the rainfall--that can then sequester more carbon in the soil. And it only requires a small area to make that change from barren desert to grassland-savannah--see the "Great Green Wall" project on the southern edge of the Sahara on YouTube.

The tilling of the soil stimulates the decomposition of soil organic matter which liberates nutrition but also can compromise the long term productivity.

In long term experimentation the change to no tillage leads to 330 kg/ha Carbon addition to the soil which if used on all our tillable land would counteract 10% of the wolrd fossil fuel emissions.

See Puget and Lal 2005 for the analysis.

Work at the Rodale Institute show beside no tillage the effect of cover crops can lead to even more significant carbon sequestration.

On the negative side our cereal dominated food system is largely fertilized by ammoniated fertilizer which is the biigest carbon senative in our staple crop agricultural.

Using a fallow cover crop we were able to see 600 to 1,200 kg Carbon per hectare carbon sequestration which is 2 to 4 times the no tillage effect.

So if no tillage might be able to counter act 20 to 40% of the global fossil fuel emission currently.

What I suggest is that while a 90% reduction of fossil fuel us might be unattainable the use of sequestration in agriiculture, our forests pastures and in marine stewardship is more than able to resolve our climate disbalance.

If we understand 10% for no tillage and 29 to 40% for cover cropping but manuring with raw manure cab give 10% 300 ke/ha comparable to notill.

But if we use compost which represents a stablized organic matter our counteracting of greenhousees is 40 to 80%

This is the nust cultivated agricuturel but does not include our forests our pasturealds and nautral areas.

It does not include the potential to re mangrove our coasts for spawing abund fisheries nor the regeneration of the coral fauaa and flora which has been decimated.

We will not resolve our climate issues by emission reduction alone but the recovery of our lands for agricultural pastures forests and the recovery of our magroves and corals are more that sufficient to recover our rapidly overheating of our planet.