I believe time is a measure of duration, and man invented clock to measure time. Therefore there should be an empiricism that explains the time that dark matter and dark energy existed before the big bang
this in actual fact had created a selective criticism rather objectivity in beliefs of scientific research or saying it is baseless to argue if the Big Bang theory has all the answers compared to God as creator of time.
Questions like 'what existed before big bang' are an index of our deeper ignorance of how the set of all potential universes 'work': We are trapped inside our anthropological view of cosmos and that's the reason why we stuck on questions like this. So, my answer is that this question has not meaning, since the term before and after are merely our senses view and not what is really existing.
@Demetris i disagree with you.
on any analysis based on experimental observation, there must be a before and an aftermath. The aftermath of Big Bang theory is cosmos of today as so believed. if we can describe anything at a potential point then i tell you there are two sides. Do we now equate the existence of God to Big Bang theory matching an undisputable fact that no one knows what exactly was before creation with the before big bang
@Olusanya, the fact that we disagree is an index of intellectual health! :)
As for your question: Just think about an ancient question of our ancestors:
"What will happen if you go to the end of Earth, will you drop down to somewhere?"
Don't you find that question (today, not then) to be a non meaningful one? The same I am trying to tell you about the question about "before and after" the so called 'big bang creation' of our local universe.
@poitr truely it was
@demetris is there any way quantum mechanics can explain the concept of time?
In order for time to have a beginning or in order for there to have been a cause for time (such as the big bang or any other cause) there would either have to have been a before/after (before cause no time, after cause time) which already assumes temporal categories making the question self-referentially absurd (it's like asking "Was there a time before time?"), or else you need a speculative and complex scientific theory that would be virtually incomprehensible to all but a few specialists (like Theoretical Physicists) for how causes do not necessarily have to precede, or coincide with, their effects. For the rest of us, to affirm that time had a beginning and is not infinite you must assume the very thing you are denying, since for this to be true you need a time before time in which time did not exist. Even people who say God created time tend to also believe that God existed *before* time existed, another self-referentially absurd belief, as Piotr points out.
"But God exists outside of time" one might say. But if God does exist outside of time, how could he "act" so as to create time?
It seems a similar problem exists in science (apart from any theology) about the beginning of the universe, since if ever there was a time when nothing at all existed, no cause for the existence of anything could be postulated, yet the cause of the universe is supposedly an entity that already existed, which raises the infinite regress questions about where it came from, what caused it, how it came to be, etc.
@Olusanya, quantum mechanics is just an applied linear algebraic methodology that:
1)claims that every process can be represented by a proper linear operator
2)the observables of that process are the eigenvalues of the operator and the state can be summed up in a sum of all available eigenvectors
3)the probability can be computed as a proper integral of the "squares" (conjugate(psi[k]).psi[k]) of the eigenstates
So, where can "time" be defined in this linear algebraic platform? Time is another spatial dimension, especially in relativistic quantum field theory.
Thus, it is like asking: "Did the z-axis exist before big bang?"
Not to fall in a [series of] paradoxa, as some commenters pointed out in the stream below, simply replace the temporal connexions "before" and "after" with spatial D, "outside:inside", "closer~around", "#cardinality".
Given that finesse, the Dilemma is still unresolved, due the pointillism of the origin.
—g
Dear Chao, I'm forced to disagree with you. Should we perhaps consider Penrose, Hawking and Hartle philosophers rather than physicists, just because in their models they can not go back more than 15 billion years ago?
—g
From statistical thermodynamics we can easily see that 'time' must have a beginning. Entropy of the universe is increasing with time. Hence it the universe goes backward in time entropy decreases and at a certain time entropy would become zero. At this point time starts. There is no concept of 'before' at that point.
So time as we know it in current universe started at big bang since it was a extraordinary tiny entropy state. There could be some other possibility where time could exist before big bang, Roger Penrose's con-formal cyclic cosmological model proposes that at the final time of a universe the concept of time destroys and new time starts again.
We can also have Fractal universe where inflation can occur at a space-time point in a universe give rise to a new universe. In this case inflation destroys all the past information. Hence no possibility of finding effect of time earlier than big bang.
Space and time born at the instance of big bang. If one says time exists before it, as once was believed, one may ask why waiting for the bang.
find an answer to the question if I told you that "we are still in the bigbang"
There is no way to prove God exists or God does not exist experimentally. But the question is philosophical that proves God exists. Where do we come from and Why? Who created the universe in this symmetrical way? who made all the basic entities which are essential for the existence of life on this planet?
Following are the brief quotations and explanations from the article
"Periodic Quantum Gravity and Cosmology."
Time is strictly periodic (or cyclic or oscillatory) in nature. This is why all the time measuring instruments are oscillators without exception. Before the big bang when there was no creation, there existed an infinite ocean of pure consciousness without any boundary. There was absolutely no motion or oscillations in this ocean of pure consciousness. Human eye was created much later. When this ocean of consciousness is viewed through the human eye, it appears as empty space. Because the substance of consciousness is so subtle that it will not interact with the materials of which the eye is made up. This is why human cannot communicate with the soul of the dead man.
At the beginning, this infinite ocean of indivisible blissful consciousness moved by its own power and gave out discrete quanta of consciousness which the physicists call energy. These energy waves have wavelength and period of oscillation, which creates the delusion of space-time in the human mind. We can see that universe is nothing but energy, and you will never find any energy which is not in a state of motion or oscillations. There are no exceptions. Hence time is simply the comparision of one period of time with another. The energy of our universe is gross energy. There can be very subtle energy like dark matter and dark energy which may not interact with the gross energy of our universe. After creating energy waves, the infinite consciousness remains completely aloof from it's own creation. But it likes to see it's own creation so it enters the human and animal bodies and enjoys its own creation. The bodies are made of energy but the consciousness behind them is not the energy. Every one thinks that they have individual existence, but that is also a delusion. So this infinite indivisible blissful consciousness alone is real and the world is an illusion. This is like the 4D motion picture in which the observer himself is one of the character. The screen on which this 4D motion picture is projected is the infinite motionless consciousness. While watching a movie if you continuously remain conscious of the white screen behind, there will be no fun in watching the movie. This is why creatures of the world remain forgetful of this infinite consciousness.
@Cj Nev.....God is a supernatural being. We can not think of infinite by our finite beings. Universe is so vast, there are billions of billions of stars. God has made this limitless world. There are many worlds like physical world there is a spritual world. In fact people who devote their life in sprituality have more feelings of the existence of God...because they try to search the God by playing in the same world. We can not say universe is created by itself without some external agency governing it that will be totally ilogical. This is what I believe...
Blessed is He !
Who made #constellations in the #sky, and placed there in a
Lamp (Sun) and a luminous #Moon
Al Qur’an 25:61
All comments are valuable to this discussion.( except philosophical ones without any true logic).
Big bang is an independent physical phenomenon and time is a concept to understand something with respect to other events. So, saying that time was "before or after" Big bang is no meaning, because time has nothing to do with Big bang. Something like watch n time, time is observed by watch but watch doesn't make time to exist.
There was something that can not be described that was later named as time.
This question arises the discussion of creation and evolution.
Both of the groups are throwing their answers from their own standpoints.
As the assumptions/equations are not same, we cannot make unanimous conclusion in this regard.
First stand on same assumptions then we will get same conclusion.
Otherwise, it a waste of time.
Special Relativity tells us that this humanistic notion of "time" is relative to the speed of travelling observers. Time can be thought of as analogous to the "unfolding of space", where space unfolds to make our measurements of the speed of light in any reference frame constant.
If this is our definition of time—a time dependent on space (and, incidentally, related to entropy)—and the big bang is the phenomenon that created space, then to ask what "caused" or was "before" the big bang makes no logical sense, since there was no space or time "before" the big bang.
The unraveling of space allows for the increase in entropy, which in turn allows for our cultural perception of "time".
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