I believe that primary education provides young people with the basic knowledge and necessary for any development. Secondary education deepens the knowledge and gives some specific skills. This training is a prerequisite for higher education. The appropriate knowledge and skills allow students to go further in higher education. In Portugal is condition for access to higher education for successful completion of specific tests for the course you want to follow.

Soon send the references of some studies.

Good work.

Joaquim Mourato

 Thank you Dr Joaquim.

Could you kindly elaborate on "the basic knowledge and necessary for any development" as provided by primary education

Regards

Thareja.

Yes because the primary and secondary education is  the necessary preparation for the tertiary level. The quality of product from the tertiary level greatly depends upon the input from the primary and secondary level.  It is from the primary and secondary level where foundations are built and general knowledge are acquired. At the tertiary level, knowledge,skills, abilities and competence are developed better and honed towards mastery and specialization. The role of the tertiary education in economic and social development cannot be under estimated. It is for this reason that tertiary education should produce quality output for economic and social growth.  Good inputs from the basic education will make good output from the higher education.

La educación básica y media son niveles requeridos en Colombia para el acceso a la educación técnica, tecnológica o universitaria. considero que este requisito es fundamental e importante, no obstante, si el sujeto tiene capacidades y competencias adquiridas  en aspectos como pensamiento lógicomatemático, lectura y escritura, ciencias biológicas y sociales y tecnología, aún si no tiene certificados, sería muy pertinente el acceso a educación tecnica como opción de desarrollo humano y laboral.

In Mexico, especially in big cities like Mexico, Guadalajara and Monterrey, the levels - IN  PUBLIC SCHOOLS - are divided into: primary school (children between 6 and 12 y.o.), when attendants learn to read and write and have social interactions among them, but no approach to laboratories or machines intended for workshops. Secondary (from 13 to 15), where attendants are approached to workshops and laboratories. Meanwhile, preparatory (from 16 to 19) is where students are led to create small projects on sciences in general and are advised what specific field is more convenient for them and develop themselves in engineering, arts, accountability, chemistry... 

Dear Dr Thareja,

like my colleagues, I espouse the view, primary and secondary education provide the basics for higher education which is thought of as the level of research and discovery. I touched briefly on this point whilst expounding on the motivation and key revolving points of the Pulaar-Fulfulde Project, which I am pleased to submit to your esteemed critic once the draft completed. The information, skills and ways of thinking carefully expounded to students is expected to crystallize in new values creation in tertiary-level structures. This is particularly true for scientific disciplines, the domain in which you presently devote your attention and resources. However, as explained in the Pulaar-Fulfulde reference, the mandate of creating new uplifting values is much more pervasive and incumbent, and I´ll precisely explain shortly in what. Let me just inform you the project seeks to translate, conceptualize and comment scientific terms and expressions in the Pulaar-Fulfulde language as well attempts to develop a methodology and curriculum for nurturing value creation in the said process; to that effect analogies and incorporation of cultural elements are extensively used. One instance is the expression "measurement unit of surface" in adult education: the term gaw, -contraction of gatal waalo- has been used: gatal  means mat, and Waalo  a region in northern Senegal were such mats, - woven structures of aquatic fibers, lined with leather and skillfully dyed - are gladly roll out to sit guests in particular ceremonies. So the house or court or flat of someone may  intuitively be expressed in unit of gaw. Similar terms are thus conceived to convey the concepts of electron, magnetic fields, mean free path, laminar and turbulent flows and so on.

In my opinion, there is still some  lack of affinity especially  between the secondary and  tertiary-level as reflected in the current quality of research, particularly in third-world countries which prompts a researcher, a critical teacher  to put forward such question.

Regards

With the dwindling reading culture globally occasioned by interest in technology and social networks/life, the need for primary and secondary education as a stepping stone to tertiary education cannot be overemphasized.

They are, though they should not! The institutionalization of compulsory education has tremendously advanced and democratized literacy for the masses and brought about the great industrial and technological revolutions that we are now enjoying. However, this system has run its course; it has become too entrenched in bureaucracy, stalled by outdated industrial-based standardization, and unable to bridge the continuously widening gap between theory and practice in teaching and learning. This makes it increasingly difficult to align projected societal needs with current primary and secondary curricula, while accounting for the diverse individual learners’ needs and interests. As the primary establishments for developing the skills needed to facilitate the construction of knowledge in K-12 schools, most higher education institutions seem to lack the vision as well as the will to change! Unfortunately, we are all byproduct of this system, which makes it even more challenging to think outside this box as we proceed in developing/changing this system from within.

The Education System of Cyprus

Pre-Primary education- Primary Education- Secondary Education- Higher Education

http://www.ac.ac.cy/images/media/assetfile/The%20Educational%20System%20of%20Cyprus0001.pdf

In my personal view  - think not necessary.  Primary / secondary education can be a mainstream mechanism for tertiary education.  But an education system also need to be open minded i.e. accept exceptional gifted students to pursue tertiary education if they have met certain / minimum entry requirement.  Doing this hope can realize & harness the student potential / strength earlier for knowledge contribution / contribution to society.

I think it is also depend on the objective of the education system.  If the objective of the education system is to promote / emphasize on knowledge contribution in specific areas according to an individual's strength & preference, it should short-cut some talented students straight to tertiary education.  If the objective is to promote standardization and nourish all students with certain mainstream value system / competency, then primary / secondary education might be enforced.

Also nowadays there are many routes to pursue education / knowledge in which home schooling, private schooling etc are proliferating in which assessment is key to evaluate their continuity to tertiary education.

Big relevance to Primary and Secondary education is what is placed by most of us exceptionally focusing on this question. Primary and Secondary education, being a prerequiste of a part of the process, the documentation of a necessary competency is invoked. Albeit it may be at the stance of special effort for the few gifted ones (c/f Joaquim: specific tests; and Han asserting a system accept exceptional gifted students to pursue tertiary education if they have met certain / minimum entry requirement); though conventionally  most undergo a general/ routine K + 10 + 2 + 2 or 3 + Graduate study avenue.

@ Joaquim rightly recounts the basics and necessary knowledge that deepens the knowledge and gives some specific skills is resourced from Primary and Secondary education for any development. Only then as Myrna asserts the  tertiary education should produce quality output for economic and social growth.  

From Lewis's Spanish note I understand he augurs the presence of basics for technical education, but feels a more broader development is the motive, as a general preparation for the needed requirements in tertiary education. May please correct me if otherwise? Such preparedness also emphaises the development of social and moral values.  You are supported by Han "If the objective is to promote standardization and nourish all students with certain mainstream value system / competency, then primary / secondary education might be enforced."

Adaku  is concerned about the dwindling reading habits of both young and youth, and endorses the primary and secondary education (P&SE) shall render the preparedness @ reading habit. Krishnan professes to rather 'catch them young', furnishing the exemplar from the Education System of Cyprus

Rafael observes the presence of a hierarchical process towards skill development, beginning through workshops and laboratories only from secondary education state, This gets intensified in later levels beginning from small projects on sciences and help align towards specific field that may be seen as more convenient for them.

We have had the wise counsel of Ahmet and your initiatives to internalise the knowledge base for making the journey of skill development easier for education seekers. I understand the objective is self sustenance and making the best in livelihoof in case of your project Pulaar-Fulfulde. I look forward to the consummation of your research.

Thank you all for your coveted guidance, and the importance given to the P&S education. it goes to endorse that the work of noble prize worth (in say literature) can be done by someone who has not attended tertiary education (e.g. Rabindra Nath Tagore).

There are many more who have have excelled without having attended tertiary education, and evidently their P&SE was worthy enough to provide them innovative directions. In that list we have spate of school dropouts.

But why such paradox exists? Khalil views this aptly as the system is generally "unable to bridge the continuously widening gap between theory and practice in teaching and learning...[ and] align projected societal needs with current primary and secondary curricula, while accounting for the diverse individual learners’ needs and interests" We presume this is the fundamental reason of school dropouts?

While the dropouts have done so well, is it wise to say that P&S education is potent enough that tertiary education (TE) can be bypassed in some cases (exceptional innovation) or vice versa? meaning therby the two sets can be separated?

To the support of only TE Concurs Han " If the objective of the education system is to promote / emphasize on knowledge contribution in specific areas according to an individual's strength & preference, it should short-cut some talented students straight to tertiary education." ?

There sure is a strong need for analysis, and if that may identify the problem correction or preventive action?

Excellent review on the education pattern and evolution of the system. It is matter of concern for the development of the society . Based on  basic knowledge and his ability to interact and progress in profession certain criteria needs to be followed to promote him to acquire higher knowledge

My question to Ahmet and all, to you comment "there is still some  lack of affinity especially  between the secondary and  tertiary-level as reflected in the current quality of research, particularly in third-world countries which prompts a researcher, a critical teacher  to put forward such question". If someone could elaborate causes and solutions to this lack of affinity, between (P&S)E and tertiary education, and how could this be remedied. Pr what are solutions there to?

There are many people in the Industry especially in Textiles  who are non matriculate but have acquired the knowledge of the basic domain and are well versed in the skills required. Such people could be given training and knowledge and hence the position. which is denied to them because of the certification requirement. Especially in Government sector 

SEAT ( skill, Education, Aptitude and training) is essential for a seat well deserved.

the govt has enabled Adult education, Sarv Shiksha Abhiyan etc, for enabling the certification.

I know of many such competent, illiterates (in private organisations)-who have risen to VP (vice president Manufacturing), by virtue of their credentials.

The government must stipulate some criteria for selections.   

Today a newpaper headline "This year, IITs will admit students with even 6% in entrance exam" in timesofindia.indiatimes.com › Education" reports of lowered levels of candidated to admission in IIT's, which is likely to further lower standards of elite institution in India. say when IITs had to therefore lower the bar for qualifying in the general category from 35% to 24.5%.

The report mentions " In a comment on the lack of success in raising school education standards, especially for the disadvantaged {parents, who do not teach}, the IITs will be admitting students with scores as low as 31 out of 504, or 6.1%, this year to fill vacant seats (compared to 8.8% in 2014). The cause for bad competence is attributed to what is secondary education [parents]  doing?

The possible causes for lowering levels may pertain to following issues:

1. seats ( institutes) of IIT's blew up (to 9000). and Non availability of that no of meritorious candidates, and/or

2. LOWER performance in essence at secondary school.?

It may be recalled that the IIT's had changed the examination pattern to limit applicants by pre JEE selection to 1, 50,000 only in 2012, who could compete in JEE advanced. Si if denominator is fixed, and there is a loss in worth, who is to be held responsible?

What TOI writes is (quote) "What the government can instead do is to improve the secondary education at school level - An IIT Director".

Or, may be the issues are different?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/entrance-exams/This-year-IITs-will-admit-students-with-even-6-in-entrance-exam/articleshow/48061694.cms

Dear Dr Thareja,

First thank you for your further enquiry into my statement pertaining to the lack of affinity between the secondary education and the tertiary level, which is thought of as the level of research and discovery. To realize and understand the symptoms of this lack of affinity as well tackle its root-causes, one should first reconsider the mandate given to education in society, a central question in the Pulaar-Fulfulde reference. I´ll therefore anticipate the submission of the draft to your esteemed attention and present the view of the Pulaagu, i.e. the FULƁE cardinal set of spiritual and cultural values, on education and society: education is the prime and inalienable right everyone should appropriate himself, making judicious use of moral and material resources from society and in turn strive to produce new uplifting values. Therefore in the Pulaar-Fulfulde context, the process of value creation derives its strength and its rationale from the FULƁE culture and language. This is a bit different, as i shall explain later, from what we´ve so far seen in the western system, which today is a global reference given its undeniable results but its shortcomings, especially in new uplifting values shouldn´t remain unseen, one may notice even in the western system reference, the lack of affinity is manifest according to press reports in the dwindling quality of knowledge and general culture particularly at the tertiary level in western societies. I would say even in the industrial frame, value creation as such is much more achieved in countries like Japan, according to the number of truly original inventions and  significant improvements performed periodically.

Another key-element is the language: in the Pulaar-Fulfulde context, attention is devoted to the ability of the language to cope with the rigorous demands in the process of translating, commenting, and conceptualizing scientific terms and expressions into the Pulaar-Fulfulde language. I´ve read today that Pakistan has introduced Urdu as the official language, replacing the English; a commendable move but I hope all aspects, especially those pertaining to the above-mentioned rigorous demands are properly identified and duly addressed beforehand. In this context, the Pulaagu view is that language attributes and proprieties should evolve from the ability of simply naming things, explaining relationships between things, to provoking new thoughts.

Regards,

Ahmet

@ Ahmet,

Thanks for sharing the experience, while we were concurrently debating on the issue of lowering competence, as you write:  "the lack of affinity is manifest according to press reports in the dwindling quality of knowledge and general culture particularly at the tertiary level in western societies." I know and understand writing a note so noteworthy takes much more time. 

I complement you understand and take care of problems while indegenising technology. many complexities are observed here and we remain in a 'catch 22' situation deliberating over right communication issues. Your skepticism " I hope all aspects, especially those pertaining to the ... rigorous demands are properly identified and duly addressed beforehand. In this context,.", which are generally not.

We are in an age of stupendous communication, where its right elements are only dwindling.

Probably our P& SE and Tertiary education are also not rightly communicating!

Dr.Theraja i have gone through this worthy debate, and found that no one can deny the importance of basic education and secondary education for tertiary education. the actual problem is that we send kids to schools to be educated for getting posts instead of having virtues,even child and parents mostly do not know that what will be the result. there are flaws exists in education system, schools are mostly found ineffective.then we talk about technical and skill education and no doubt now its age of educational economy and near about 60-70% are investing in skills development(lit says). I believe that we should concentrate on such education system  from P&SE to tertiary education which are based on both values and skills. Mere knowledge of IT can produce machines but having no feeling of human beings. I am not opposing technological development, but human development in terms of values are also indispensable to save society from injustice, unfair distribution of resources  and equal economical and social development. i am very sorry to say that in even in highly educated societies these deficiencies are found. thus aim of education should be very clear at P& SE for having quality at Tertiary level. 

@Muhammad,  If I understand correctly you view P& SE to focus more on inculcating values and skills, and technical and skill education (technological development) to Tertiary level, where for higher quality could be addressed Myrna had noted  the ".. reason that tertiary education should produce quality output for economic and social growth". I agree in principle, noting that if quality is fitness, or Quality is customer's choice then the inculcation of values and skills be the order of 

The Quality of life, if we consider from Maslow's hierarchy of needs, depends upon technology: what we need- Hygenically Clean and automated toilets, abundant food, and cozy houses and wearables. So technology is the foremost requirements, and what keeps us from not developing the aptitude and skills at the young age, so that creativity is harnessed over longer periods, and given our examination/ design inadequacies, that is not killed. Khalil also placed his concern (or privilege) regarding "continuously widening gap between theory and practice in teaching and learning. This makes it increasingly difficult to align projected societal needs with current primary and secondary curricula, while accounting for the diverse individual learners’ needs and interests". It really calls for expansion of infrastructure and diversification of provisions. The onus on faculty (as I quipped most often in my consulting) is "one may not teach, but atleast don't destroy their originality by forcibly teaching trash"*. considering Dr W.E. Deming quote “In God we trust, all others must bring data”  only Truth is sacrosanct. The data is subject to transformation - for Inventions. So why not leave them on their own and focus on a Holean development% [P& SE to focus more on inculcating values and skills, as above] . For, we have no right to kill their motivation an/or inquisitiveness.  

*Many of our experts visualise the strategic processes for success prevailing in our P&SE or TE as rote orientation and  and (to be educated for getting posts instead of having virtues). 

 P Thareja, DD Sharma, PB Mahapatra, Holean Education-The Paradigm for Thee,

OmniScience: A Multi-disciplinary Journal 1 (1), 1-21

My daughter dropped out of high school. She later attended a technical institute where she earned an A.S. degree in Medical Assistant. Now she is enrolled in a University where she is studying Psychology. I know of other people who have taken the same route to higher education, circumnavigating some of the process. It does not seem to be a problem

KNill Canlyn 

Great to hear such things in this modern world. This is very essential. we need to promote   such education with  need based VET  with support from the stake holders and government by recognizing such skills 

Knill, @ your response. No wonder, such is a usual phenomenon in India too. The engineers in probation do not take enough interests in non-sciences. Thus their score is low in such courses, and if it drops below a threshold, they are forced to drop out from school.

Given, an opportunity to take up something they take interest in, they will do well.

The other factors are a wise counsel (maturity); or right mentorship, which may have lacked in school.  Alternatively, I agree "circumnavigating some of the process" does happen when one changes the course. This Change is mostly a painful process, and I am glad your daughter succeeded over it.

Amen!

Are you asking for a factual answer (are they?) or are you seeking advice on what should be? Unfortunately all to often they are a  required pre-requisites for earning higher degrees.Yet even Oxford in the UK has awarded doctorates (rarely) to people who have achieved excellence in their work and research without having ever earned a bachelor's degree.  The ideal is based on a theory of equivalences ... perhaps that is how systems should work. 

@ Sheldon, Thank you galore. Yes, I was soliciting advice.

Data, as we all know is advice. and facts are information. Analysing these, Iterations et al, we produce knowledge, which must be processed for actions, combining with tools and intents.  So facts, if any are welcome, I was indeed looking for publications as authentic data, /information for my knowledge.

Thanks one again.

@ Ahmet,

In context with indianisation of WOW ( doublew o doublew ) {written on a display board in a big industry}, I had written an article translating (indegenising) this to Balle o Balle, which has a significant meaning among masses in North India,

this may interest you. find a pre-publication copy at RG in my published papers' inventory

Thanks

Conference Paper Balle-o-Balle Quality {Quality World, May 2015}

Having read the interesting responses, my contribution is that we need to understand that there needs to be a variety of pathways to higher education.

In Australia, most higher education institutions have a variety of transparent, well articulated entry requirements which, of course, vary according to discipline studies which a  stduent might be applying for entry into. There is the usual primary, then secondary studies pathway for school leavers, and for them to then apply for entry to higher education studies.

However, for both undergraduate studies and postgraduate there are other pathways, which, for example, might take into account studies elsewhere after students leave compulsory secondary schooling, industry evdience and experience, portfolios, and require auditions; e.g. https://www.studyinaustralia.gov.au/global/australian-education/education-pathways.

@Glenn. One question which may be studying by default is " why are there school leavers"?

2. Why have students faulted somewhere in choosing their deemed to be fit profession?Or why a change in stream gets desired, which by default necessitates the provision of several pathways? 

In India, we don't have much access/ popularity of talent investigation of children/ adolescents. So change in interests realised at later stages may be possible/ present.Viz. a simple exit from my seat would have put me into medical stream, and I may have been a clinical doctor instead. I thank my lack of initiative that I became an engineer. And it could bave been inversely engineered by the responsible teacher. However, In India, a change of stream at a later TE stage is not generally allowed, and consequently remains unpopular

Clear outcomes should be explicit what graduates can “do, be and know” on completion of the qualification, and indicate pathways to further education, employment and/ or a contribution to their community. Evaluative quality assurance emphasizes the achievement of outcomes relevant to the needs and aspirations of significant stakeholders

http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/assets/Studying-in-NZ/New-Zealand-Qualification-Framework/requirements-nzqf.pdf

@Krishnan,  Your comment: "Evaluative quality assurance emphasizes the achievement of outcomes relevant to the needs and aspirations of significant stakeholders" - In general yes. But Indian class room is a disparate class room. For a no fail policy,  we should also be considerate about the non-significant part of the class.

By grace, after completion of the class some students sure conform to the lecture's desired objectives, or  expected outcomes "what graduates can “do, be and know”  even if the class room session was immature or spurious. Mere tuning on a topic puts one on thinking, figuring out and even researching.

The question is the probability /possibility of " tuning on a topic [that] puts one on thinking, figuring out and even researching" and with predictable success?.. 

I think elementary and secondary education provide solid foundations for people to study at higher education level. In some countries, relevant and cognate experience are considered as replacement for elementary and secondary education. Even where this approach is used, the adult learners have to take some courses that can help to develop the necessary study and learning skills.

Thank you Semiyu. Tou are right that "elementary and secondary education provide solid foundations for people to study at higher education level", but not exquisitely.  The experience is probably available elsewhere, as visualised for adult learners.

I also wonder the nature of the structure (if present ) and the resourcefulness of P&SE that is of societal utility.

I dont know research, but french history may give us some indications. First, end of 1700s, there was "Central school of engineering and works (roads, bridges, harbours" then "Polytechnical School" for military engineering. Then students had to be prepared for entering these schools, in classes post baccalauréat. Then, mathematics and physics courses came in last year before baccalaureat, in order to prepare students to preparatory cursus, and so on from the beginning of education, 13 years before, in so called "Lycees". Khalil El Saghir is right, this system is a very bureaucratic one (if you can read franch I have sociological studies about this phénomenon) and repeating a year for 25% of students was one of the results of this way of organizing education.

Sould not be so, and you can see that US books for first year teaching in US universities begin at the beginning, so that some students may begin without the "basis" of a previous 12 years curriculum. It is the point in France for Medecine, but the entry examination demands such huge learning capabilities that best students of scientific series are the ones...

Nowadays some schools (ENS Lyon is one of them) are recruiting gifted students from suburbs and accompany them during first year, this works very well and shows that even in France, some students may study successfully when having not good previous formation. But this is not a proof for answering on the inutility of the primary and secondary system.

Thank you Alain Mercier,

Your experiences and observations are indeed valuable.

World over we have a dire shortage of persons for dirty collar jobs by attitude. Though, thanks to automation, dirty collar is no longer dark. Sweating always is good for health, and let us say we assign such (work- dirty collar) sweating to those who could not get themselves accommodated in primary- to -secondary -to tertiary system of education.

The system you worthily take cognizance of -  "Central school of engineering and works (roads, bridges, harbours" then "Polytechnical School" for military engineering -  may serve to be a good answer to the shortage of dirty collar workers/ operators and /or technicians; but they are so essential for society's quality (say as scavengers are necessary to clean up - though I do not see this exemplary as befitting in context).

Moreover, it is the ardent duty of seniors to involve the youth or  deprived to help them gear up to join the mainstream.

Sorry for quite a delayed response and also a big thank you for having contributed. If you have any comments or add ons, I believe shall respond you fast enough.

Regards, Thareja