Aleš Kralj: "such error"

Would you kindly specify what you mean?

"For LIGO, we'd like to be more than 99.9999% sure that a possible detection wasn't just noise before we announce a detection to the world."

Dear Preston,

thanks for quoting above LIGO statement. That many nines may in fact be impressive to the public and funding administration but certainly don't tell anything about signal sources and related confusion, in particular, when burst signals originting from passive seismic suspension system although having been identified in earlier studies are completely ignored in the discovery papers.

Dear Preston,

thanks for providing above links related to gravitational anomalies. Vertical mirror displacements as observable via lateral components due to missing orthogonality between interferometer arms and local vertical mirror suspension need, in fact, not neccessarily originate from external sources. LIGO passive seismic suspension structures stay under high local stress giving rise to micro cracks of the materials involved as has been established in earlier investigations not mentioned in the discovery papers.

I think that at least part of those micro cracks will release avalanche type displacements with chirp type signal profiles. A worst case scenario happened in summer 2017 when fused silica suspension fibres broke under overstress at the VIRGO facility, and their operators returned for some time to steel wire suspension.

To: Preston Guynn

The Ligo-Team analyzed GW100916 for six months in 2010. They were "unanimously" sure (99.9999% ?) that they had detected a GW, but it was a fake...

See: https://www.ligo.org/news/blind-injection.php

According to Grischuk, mirrors describe such trajectories.

https://ufn.ru/ufn77/ufn77_4/Russian/r774c.pdf

I do not have a link to the English text. Excuse me.

"According to Grischuk, mirrors describe such trajectories."

Dear Valery,

I'm sorry, I don't understand at all what it means in view of the LIGO test mirror system. Would you kindly explain in more detail?

Dear Johan,

Often the work of the LIGO interferometer is explained by the fact that the gravitational wave periodically changes the distance between the interferometer mirrors. In fact, it is not. The distance between the mirrors does not change. Because in the equation of motion there are no necessary Christoffel coefficients. But in an obvious way the speed of light changes. More precisely, the anisotropy of the speed of light appears.

Respectfully , Valery Morozov

Dear Valery

I also thought that ligo could not work with the variation of the distance of the mirrors, but I got there through a simple, or simplistic, reasoning. I'll write it below, so someone can correct me: Light travels through space-time. If time-space is compressed or dilated, the light continues to move in it. The light beam is then compressed or stretched in the same way of the space-time, like a line drawn on a sheet that is folded. The actual length of the path of light, in space-time, remains the same. What should varies is, at most, the frequency. A relative oscillation of frequency should be observed between the lasers passing in the two arms of the instrument. What is observed is, therefore, the slight dawdle in the frequency between the two laser beams.

Regards

Dear Sergio,

You accurately described the reality. The main thing is changing the wavelength. Frequency does not change significantly.

Regards

Dear Thierry De Mees and W.W. Engelhardt,

thanks for linking the above article, even though I cannot find an obvious answer to my leading question therein. Do you know of any discussion on whether LIGO and associates are able to exclude that their assumed GW signals as recorded along their virtually horizontal interferometer tubes are associated with simultaneous mirror displacements along the local verticals? Vertical mirror displacements due to curvature of earth will oviously cross talk into the interferometer beam lines, so LIGO cannot exclude their assumed GW signals to result from vertical mirror shift. If so, the entire reasoning on GW discovery would immediately break down due to instrumental inability.

Formula found in Russian Wikipedia. It expresses the acceleration of the interferometer mirrors through the second derivatives of the perturbations of the metric of the gravitational wave. This is not true. Accelerations in general relativity must be found from the equation of motion. They include Christoffel coefficients. However, for a FIXED Mirror, acceleration depends only on Гi00, but for the metric of the gravitational wave Гi00=0 !

I did not immediately understand how Grischuk, a friend of Thorn, finds the displacement of mirrors. When I understood, I was horrified. Perhaps this formula has an earlier history, I have not investigated its history.

The question arises. Why does LIGO work? Where does the signal occur if the gravitational wave does not move the mirrors? The answer is simple. Gravitational wave changes the speed of light. More precisely, the field of a gravitational wave creates spatial anisotropy of the speed of light.

I have just published my latest paper titled "Black Holes are a mathematical fantasy, not a physical reality" in 'Applied Physics Research' journal. http://dx.doi.org/10.5539/apr.v11n4p16

In this paper I have analytically derived two important conclusions regarding existence of Black Holes (BH). Firstly, I have shown that none of the photons emitted from the surface of a gravitating body of any mass and any size can ever be prevented by gravity from escaping that body. That is, under no circumstances can a gravitating body (BH) capture the light or prevent its escape from that body. Secondly, I have shown that under no circumstances can the core of any massive star collapse under its own gravity. Current Core Collapse models erroneously assume all electrons, ions and nuclei to be non-interacting and wrongly use kinetic theory of gases to analyze stresses in a solid iron core. That is, I have conclusively proved that the current notion of Black Hole can neither be formed by any physical process, nor be invisible under any circumstances.

Gurcharn . The reason for the appearance of singularities in GR is the inaccuracy of the Einstein equation. I developed the general theory of relativity, replacing the Einstein equation. The solution of the Schwarzschild problem no longer contains singularities. Therefore, there is no reason to talk about black holes

Article The General Theory of Relativity, a New Iteration

Dear Gurcharn Singh Sandhu,

Your article "Black Holes are a fantasy, not a physical reality" is sensible and useful. Especially now, when there were reports of "observations" and descriptions of their properties.

Respectfully , Valery Morozov

To all:

The standard "wisdom" in solving Einstein equations for a real body is to model the body, such as our Sun, by a perfect fluid momentum-energy tensor. This tensor is supposed to take into account everything regarding matter. I repeat: EVERYTHING--pressure and density.

In the process of solving the Einstein equations there arises a certain mathematical condition on the radius v. mass of the Sun. Our Sun does not satisfy this condition. Period. This fact is interpreted as the influence of the thermonuclear fusion taking place at the centre of the Sun.

This is particularly confusing interpretation, because it is said that momentum-energy tensor contains everything pertaining to the matter, but then we come to know that there is something material--namely additional pressure--which is not included in the tensor.

1.) Whay it is not included?

2.) How to include "additional pressure", whose presence would make Sun stable and at the same time solve the Einstein equations?

In fact, the conditions of the tasks are always more or less idealized. When finding the gravitational field of stars and planets, only mass is usually used, sometimes rotation. Some things do not play a role, for example, in a stationary problem with spherical symmetry there is no need to consider the distribution of mass in the inner part of the body.

Although it is probably interesting to consider the field of a hypothetical "body" consisting only of pressure without mass. It is not difficult to do this; all of this is included in the right-hand side of Einstein's equation, more precisely, in the energy-momentum-tension tensor.

Valery Borisovich Morozov

"... there is no need to consider the distribution of mass in the inner part of the body. "

There is a need to consider distribution of mass if you want to solve equations in and out of the body. The solution on the border between the body and empty space should be continuous.

Of course, the solution must be continuous and not have singularities. The problem of singularities is solved for isotropic space. It also boils down to solving the wave equation, but the resulting metric is still non-linear

Article The General Theory of Relativity, a New Iteration

Preprint New version of the general theory of relativity (Initial pri...

Gurcharn Singh Sandhu

Sir, You are correct about the clocks, Just read carefully Ligo's experimentation process. They are just producing the fake news.

I belong to interferometry group, can clearly understand the meaning and data of the experiment, they are using an interferometer to detect gravitational wave it is a joke they are touting, no interferometry can detect such a wave, they have detected something else a slightly divergent source, which is common in near space observation, and even found in common fluids calling it black whole, and the ripples gravitational waves.

Gravitation is not or never can be found through any of the works from Einstein, it's origin lies somewhere else on the earth.

"It is the beauty of mathematics it solves a logic but the logic remains invisible".

Gravitational waves were indirectly discovered in 1972. Just like the neutrino was discovered before its direct registration:

" The radiation of gravitational waves has been inferred from the Hulse–Taylor binary (and other binary pulsars).[75] Precise timing of the pulses shows that the stars orbit only approximately according to Kepler's Laws: over time they gradually spiral towards each other, demonstrating an energy loss in close agreement with the predicted energy radiated by gravitational waves.[76][77] For their discovery of the first binary pulsar and measuring its orbital decay due to gravitational-wave emission, Hulse and Taylor won the 1993 Nobel Prize in Physics.[78]

A "double pulsar" discovered in 2003, PSR J0737-3039, has a periastron precession of 16.90° per year; unlike the Hulse–Taylor binary, both neutron stars are detected as pulsars, allowing precision timing of both members of the system. Due to this, the tight orbit, the fact that the system is almost edge-on, and the very low transverse velocity of the system as seen from Earth, J0737−3039 provides by far the best system for strong-field tests of general relativity known so far. Several distinct relativistic effects are observed, including orbital decay as in the Hulse–Taylor system. After observing the system for two and a half years, four independent tests of general relativity were possible, the most precise (the Shapiro delay) confirming the general relativity prediction within 0.05%[79] (nevertheless the periastron shift per orbit is only about 0.0013% of a circle and thus it is not a higher-order relativity test)"

Valery Borisovich Morozov

Sir, just read yourself the reply you added it has nothing to do with gravitation or gravitational waves, just predictions... belief and nothing else .

It appears that the does not have gravity to be further explored! only outer space is workshops now.

Dear Dinesh Kumar Maurya,

It is a prediction of general relativity. Observation of the binary system confirmed this prediction.

Yes, on Earth there are no sufficiently powerful sources of gravity and gravitational waves. Therefore, further development of the theory is possible only by studying distant krsmicheskie objects.

Regards, Valery

"Gravitation is not or never can be found through any of the works from Einstein, it's origin lies somewhere else on the earth."

The gravitational waves described in GR are a manifestation of the anisotropy of space. The wave does not change the position of the mirrors, but appears as an anisotropy of the speed of light. A pair of interferometers measures precisely the anisotropy of light.

This is equivalent to a change in the refractive index in the arms of the interferometer.

Valery Borisovich Morozov

Although, I do not believe in such theories, as nature is not so intelligent to know Einstein or any one else. It's ok, it is just inquisitiveness of our mind that tries to find the truth.

Let us explore it further, can it be possible to derive the rest mass energy relationship (E=m0C2) without using any Einstein's work or space-time .......

reply soon if it is possible.

Let us explore it further, can it be possible to derive the rest mass energy relationship (E=m0C2) without using any Einstein's work or space-time ......."

In electrodynamics you can get E=m0C2 under the assumption that the substance consists only of an electromagnetic field. But this is not SRT. In service stations, time is associated with coordinates and this is the main result.

Valery Borisovich Morozov

In electrodynamics you can get E=m0C2 under the assumption that the substance consists only of an electromagnetic field. But this is not SRT. In service stations, time is associated with coordinates and this is the main result.

What is this ???? I do not understand.

Nature has not given us simple laws. We can calculate the electron levels in complex atoms, but this is only possible lately and only with the help of powerful computers. The laws of gravity look more complicated than Newton expected and this is confirmed by experience.

Time flows differently in different places. Watches of any nature in different conditions run at different speeds depending on the gravitational potential and speed.

We do not believe or believe in the laws of nature. We study them, constantly update them. Of course, in order to understand something, you need to study it for a long time. Since humanity has seriously studied nature for the past 300 years, it takes time to master this experience. All knowledge is based on experience, Einstein did not come up with the laws of nature. He described them based on their experience of their predecessors.

Sir, sorry

my question is simple Can it be possible to derive the rest mass energy relationship (E=m0C2) within single frame of ref.

please take time, just think of it your generous perhaps may do it, I am not joking. As this is possible....

I do not see the point in this task.

Valery Borisovich Morozov

Sir, just take clue from your side or just use tensors ...etc. but never use two frames. just try it is possible...just take time

thankyou it is late night here, so this is last message.

Dear Dinesh Kumar Maurya,

Maybe we just did not understand each other? What do you want to show? The subject of our conversation?

The topic is indicated by the original question.

Regards, Valery

Dear Dinesh Kumar Maurya,

I think that you attach importance to the expression mc2, which is used in quantum mechanics. This is the right idea, but concrete results are needed in order to relate quantum mechanics and gravity. Until this is done, and attempts to do it (quantum gravity) are unsuccessful.

Concrete results are needed, not rhetoric.

Regards, Valery

Dear Dinesh Kumar Maurya,

"I do not wish to relate gravity or QM"

I would like to do this if I have enough strength. Thank you also.

Vertical mirror displacements

I had some strange mail exchange these days with LIGO Open Science Center, see PDF copies below. Either LIGO is not aware of the matter or it is kept under wraps.

Dear Johan K. Fremerey I send LIGO many thread and email, that gravitational wave is more than fantasy than reality and also send them why. first of all the universe is not result of the Big Bang, because all the evidence show that universe is a complete well organized entity with Quantum Mechanics foundation. secondly space of universe is not just holder, we must take it as a substance, due to atom is holding 99.99% space's of universe. When space get temperature, it creates wave, this unprecedented statement must be recognized by science, thus there is no temp. between galaxies to create wave. on other word, gravity is internal Not External.

Article Gravity is an Internal Force

Article Quantum Intelligent Space

Dear Javad Fardaei

Please note that I do not intend and also have no adequate background knowledge to prove the possible existence of gravitational waves (GW). I understand that the LIGO/VIRGO project has been established just for delivering that proof.

My intention is just to state that LIGO has no means or is not willing to prove whether or not their claimed GW signals originate from simultaneous vertical test mass motion with similar profile at about three orders of magnitude larger amplitudes. In the latter case all claimed gravitational wave events would unveal as phantasy.

Gravitational waves have nothing to do with the Big Bang. It must be remembered that the "big bang" is just a hypothesis, with a lot of additional hypotheses. While gravitational waves are an established fact. Moreover, the existence of gravitational waves is confirmed long before the LIGO data. This was clear from the losses in pairs of neuton stars.

Dear Valery Borisovich Morozov Gravitation wave is a mechanical phenomenon that is totally flaw, because our universe is not acting or working mechanical. in addition, I am sure you are aware of this that wave cannot propagate through space without temperature. Deleted research item The research item mentioned here has been deleted

This article which it is part of one of my book chapter, proved that there must be no temperature between galaxies, therefore the claim of LIGO is totally irrelevant.

Dear Javad Fardaei ,

Strange statements contradicting the observed facts. This is not physics.

Dear all,

It has become clear also from the above discussion that nobody is interested to question LIGO's experimental procedures. So it is quite easy for LIGO and associates, in fact, to spread and maintain their spectacular claims.

All doubts, failures and disputes are left behind. The history of interferometers began in 1963. Work on LIGO until the signal was received lasted twenty years. All data is open and anyone can get acquainted with the results. The scientific community has recognized these results. But was this a confirmation of the existence of gravitational waves.

In fact, gravitational waves were discovered in 1974:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulse%E2%80%93Taylor_binary

It is useless to argue now, the train has left.

R. 49, posted 2020/06/30

The x-th time (at other thread), note: there is a difference whether there is a wave by a single static source of gravitation or by two (more) of them rotating (also at variated distance by movement of a single source).

Who believes in `waves´ on gravitation may proof it for constant status. It must be `the jackpot´ if the frequencies of static and moving are at the same rate.

Peter Kepp,

Gravitational waves are emitted if there is a quadrupole moment or a moment of a higher order. And this moment is oscillating. This is accomplished by rotating two masses around a common center of mass.

In this case, the energy of the bodies is lost to radiation. and the radiation frequency is increasing. So we can track the comparison of messianic bodies.

Valery Borisovich Morozov

Nice picture! What does it tell us about the LIGO/VIRGO experimental concept?

Valery Borisovich Morozov

You point on the frequeny of the `envelope-signal´. What about the other frequency?

An example:

If a lamp gets more and less bright by an ac-power source, you would receive the frequency of brightness. If the lamp (additional) comes nearer / goes farer you may detect a second frequency of brightness, by period of distance.

You only look at the second effect. I asked for both of them.

Peter Kepp ,

What are you talking about? I do not understand.

Johan K. Fremerey ,

In short, a gravitational wave creates an anisotropy of the speed of light. Michelson's interferometer reacts to changes in the speed of light. It is this anisotropy that is measured by LIGO. Details can be found on the LIGO website

https://www.ligo.caltech.edu/

Valery Borisovich Morozov: "Michelson's interferometer reacts to changes in the speed of light. It is this anisotropy that is measured by LIGO."

Do you think mirror displacements need not be considered?

Valery Borisovich Morozov

You don´t understand because you (expert opinion on quadrupol for gravitation) take a monopol equal to such sources, which are dipols.

EM-wave is it at two units, electical field and magnetic field. At both the EM-wave has positive as well as negative force. Gravitation not! So this equivalent for gravitation lacks. If so, there is no origin wave — in physical manner – by gravitation. Periodic change in strenght of gravitation has to be proofed as to be in connection with velocity of light (c). I will listen.

Peter Kepp: "here is no origin wave — in physical manner – by gravitation."

Waves generally occur due to limited speed of propagation.

Johan K. Fremerey ," Do you think mirror displacements need not be considered?"

The same result will be obtained if we consider the problem in a coordinate system that describes the problem in a system with a constant speed of light. In general relativity, the result does not depend on the choice of a coordinate system. In a popular presentation of the work of LIGO this is what they state. I prefer the initial description of the operation of the gravitational interferometer given by Herzenstein and Pustovoit in 1963.

Peter Kepp ,

The solution to the problem of radiation of the gravitational field does not have a dipole component.

Johan K. Fremerey

Valery Borisovich Morozov

Yes, that´s it!

I think Johan concerne about the identidade must be take into account.

Carlos Frajuca: "I think Johan concerne about the identidade must be take into account."

Thanks for your encouraging comment. You obviously have got my point. I would like to make clear for everyone else following the current thread that my objection is just from a metrological point of view, i.e. completely independent of whether or not gravitational waves really exist and how they might interact, or not, with LIGO type interferometers. So the latter case, in fact, need not be discussed within the current thread.

Dear Johan, I got your point. Vibration in the suspension system could lead to false signals. This could be fixed by coincidence work between the two ligo but in not allow claims in a single interferometer.

Cheers!

In fact, the vibration of mirrors has long been at the level of thermal noise. This is solved by cooling the mirrors. Now there is the problem of quantum noise of the laser beam. But it is also successfully resolved by using squeezed states of light.

https://www.ligo.caltech.edu/news/ligo20200701

Johan is Tallinn about vertical vibration. For all I know the LIGO mirrors are not cooled down.

Mirrors are cooled on a KAGRA interferometer up to 20 K

Dear Valery Borisovich Morozov ,

What is a value of the measurement uncertainty?

For example, to achieve an uncertainty of 3·10–3 K at 300 K requires a measurement time of at least 27 h [ T. Haensch, ‎S. Leschiutta and ‎A. Wallard, Metrology and Fundamental Constants, IOS Press, Bologna Italy, 2007. ]

Carlos Frajuca: "This could be fixed by coincidence"

Dear Carlos, thank you for addressing the most relevant issue of signal coincidence. We had an intensive discussion on that point in 2016, i.e. shortly after publication of LIGO's claimed gravitational wave (GW) discovery, see:

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Are_signal_bursts_as_observed_at_LIGO_gravitational_wave_antennas_caused_by_stress_induced_relaxation_phenomena_in_seismic_suspension_fibres

In short: The discussion was essentially based on a specific public statement by experts from the LIGO data analysis division, see reference below, last paragraph on page 24: “There are families of glitches that we frequently see but have not yet discovered the cause of.“ From just a statistical point of view we have demonstrated that GW type signal coincidence within 10 ms between the two LIGO sites should be expected at significant rates, even in case that signals originate from independent local sources.

Please note that neither VIRGO nor KAGRA have contributed so far with any simultaneous signal showing LIGO GW type profile. Even in case of the Nobel prize winning event GW170817 VIRGO only contributed with a null result.

Dear Johan, it´s my pleasure to contribute with the discussion.

Johan K. Fremerey ,

You have incomplete data.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/GW170814_signal.png/1200px-GW170814_signal.png

Valery Borisovich Morozov,

Any comments on that graphics? Rather strange that in spite of virtually null appearance of the VIRGO signal at the frequency-vs-time graphs, whitened strain signal appears similarly clear as those from US LIGO sites. Please note that LIGO uses signal templates for signal evaluation, and please also note that LIGO/VIRGO themselves have stressed null detection at the VIRGO site for localisation of alleged GW170817 gravitational wave source.

Johan K. Fremerey ,

A huge amount of data has been published. I advise you to refer to the sources

https://www.ligo.caltech.edu/page/scientists

Valery Borisovich Morozov: "I advise you to refer to the sources https://www.ligo.caltech.edu/page/scientists"

Do you really expect critical voices on LIGO websites about their own spectacular claims? There have been, in fact, critical voices from LIGO staff members in LIGO Magazine - see https://www.researchgate.net/post/Are_signal_bursts_as_observed_at_LIGO_gravitational_wave_antennas_caused_by_stress_induced_relaxation_phenomena_in_seismic_suspension_fibres

Doubt is a common part of a researcher's job. Why should I only be interested in criticism? The work must be perceived as a whole. In this case, I have no reason to be interested in the criticism of amateurs.

Valery Borisovich Morozov: "In this case, I have no reason to be interested in the criticism of amateurs."

You might not have noticed that above cited criticism came from LIGO expert staff members themselves: "There are families of glitches that we frequently see but have not yet discovered the cause of.“ I don't know what kind of extraordinary qualification you enjoy that enables you to assign LIGO experts an amateur status.

Johan K. Fremerey ,

Real pros know well what they don't understand and don't hide it. What's so strange about that?

Best regards, Valery

Valery Borisovich Morozov: "Real pros know well what they don't understand and don't hide it."

I fully agree! LIGO pros, in fact, state: "There are families of glitches that we frequently see but have not yet discovered the cause of.“ As you say: "they don't understand, and they don't hide it." Their above unambigous statement, however, doesn't prevent them from picking their gravitational wave signal candidates just from the same signal category that they admit to not understand. LIGO is not even able to discriminate whether their claimed gravitational wave signals originate from horizontal or vertical movement of their test masses. Their experimental setups are obviously incapable of making the difference. If signals result from vertical movement of test masses this would immediately rule out gravitational wave excitation.

Johan K. Fremerey ,

I do not understand the source of your statement about vertical mass transfer. Do you know the details of the unidentified signals? A possible reason for the almost simultaneous displacement of the mirrors at once in three points separated by thousands of kilometers? I cannot approve without knowing the details. And you?

Best regards, Valery

Valery Borisovich Morozov: "vertical mass transfer"

What are you talking about?

Johan K. Fremerey: " What are you talking about? "

I do not know what is this. Some of my interlocutors spoke about this.

Valery Borisovich Morozov: "Some of my interlocutors spoke about this."

So you obviously have no idea of what we are discussing here, and it apparently makes little sense to suggest that you should read the references quoted above.

Valery Borisovich Morozov : "In fact, gravitational waves were discovered in 1974"

Please note that we don't question at all the existence of gravitational waves here, but just are discussing the capability of LIGO/VIRGO type experimental setups, see original question.

Johan K. Fremerey ,

Sorry, I didn’t understand what kind of vertical offset we are talking about. And in general, what are you saying here. I see no reason to question the LIGO / VIRGO results.

Best regards, Valery

Valery Borisovich Morozov . "I see no reason to question the LIGO / VIRGO results."

LIGO is in a rather comfortable situation with their spectacular claims as only very few people are interested at all in the basic functional details of LIGO interferometers. LIGO simply cannot exclude that their detected signals come from vertical displacement of their test masses in which case gravitational wave excitation is definitely excluded. I expect KAGRA will help unvealing the hoax.

Johan K. Fremerey ,

I do not see any reasons that make mirrors move at the same time and in the same way, except for gravitational waves.

Valery Borisovich Morozov . "I do not see any reasons ..."

This view obviously cannot be taken as proof for the existence of something that we are searching for, in particular, when LIGO staff members themselves state: "There are families of glitches that we frequently see but have not yet discovered the cause of.“

Crackling noise interference:

I‘m rather happy to see that KAGRA scientists have recognized and analyzed the influence of crackling noise interference via their vertical test mirror suspensions, see reference below. This is what I have been missing in the LIGO/VIRGO spectacular discovery papers right from the beginning, see https://www.researchgate.net/post/Are_signal_bursts_as_observed_at_LIGO_gravitational_wave_antennas_caused_by_stress_induced_relaxation_phenomena_in_seismic_suspension_fibres?

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2009.00400.pdf

Johan,

I will be interesting to see if any of the crackling noise will mimic chirp signals from NS or BH mergers.

Peter Hahn : "mimic chirp signals from NS or BH mergers."

In a first step it would make sense to look for simultaneous signals with similar profiles along the verticals even without being able to identify a corresponding source. This is because vertical signals in this case are expected to appear at three orders of magnitude larger amplitudes as compared to their horizontal components which in view of amplitude level would definitely rule out GW interference from remote sources.

Johan K. Fremerey : This is about KAGRA. In my opinion, "Gravitational waves" can never reach the depth of KAGRA, and observations of GWs will never happen in KAGRA.

C.Ganesa Moorthy: In my opinion, "Gravitational waves" can never reach the depth of KAGRA

Would you kindly explain your reasoning?

Preston Guynn: "There are multiple related reasons for this."

You argue on the basis of theoretical backgrounds, whereas I argue more with a view to experimental shortcomings.

This is for July 19 question of Dr. Johan K. Fremerely,

Just now I noticed the question. The reason to be mentioned below may not be accepted by many persons. However, it is my duty to say the reason even if it is not accepted.

Electromagnetic waves which have the speed of light in vacuum can have at most one component: either only electric field component or only magnetic field component. There are reasons for this statement without violating Maxwell theory. Somewhat acceptable by some persons is that there is no practical evidence for simultaneous existence of both components. In one observation of gravitational waves gamma ray burst was also observed with a delay of 1.7 seconds. When two mega stars with magnetic field come close, the magnetic field produce gravitational waves which happen before actual collision happens, and gamma ray burst happens during actual collision after 1.7 seconds. My observation is that gravitational waves are magnetic field waves. Magnetic field waves cannot penetrate 600 feet rock in KAGRA site to reach the device, even though these gravitational waves have long wave length. (Radio waves produced by us with very long wave length cannot directly reach submarines in sea when they are at a depth of 100 feet). Usual description of saying that gravitational waves do not disturb matters is not applicable here, for an obvious logical reason.

C.Ganesa Moorthy

C. G. M.: "Electromagnetic waves which have the speed of light in vacuum can have at most one component: either only electric field component or only magnetic field component.”

What about existing like sine and cosine?

C.Ganesa Moorthy: "My observation is that gravitational waves are magnetic field waves."

How did you observe ?

Johan,

The late Ron Hatch, the GPS guru, says on page 98 of the attached that gravitational waves appear to actually be electromagnetic waves.

God Bless,

Denny

Noises are observed by observatories in terms of signals. Significant variations in signals are called gravitational waves by using testing hypotheses approach. After finding the variations people started to give explanations for origin of these waves, and these explanations are "considered" as definitions for gravitational waves. During actual collision of matters one can expect light rays emissions. My guess is that gamma ray burst happened during actual collision. Gravitational waves were observed before 1.7 seconds. My guess is that before actual collision, magnetic lines of the stars intercepted to produce gravitational waves. Since magnetic fields produced the gravitational waves, they should be magnetic field waves. In my opinion, arms acted as antennas (apart from the explanations for functions of arms), which can also observe noises apart from gravitational waves. Light rays contain only electric field component, and radio waves contain only magnetic field waves. I do not like to compare them sine waves. Some details may be found in the book "Planets and electromagnetic waves" regarding these components. The book is downloadable. This suggestion is not for promotion; and this suggestion may be neglected.

Preston Guynn: "There are experimental shortcomings of a general nature"

I am more concerned with a very specific shortcoming of the LIGO test mass suspensions, such that they cannot decide whether their claimed gravitational wave signals result from vertical or horizontal test mass excitation.