Hello Giordano, I wouldn't want to judge which system is best but apart from the ones you listed there is also Simi shape (Simi motion) and Theia marker less.

We have used kinetisense which is very user-friendly but has limitations on some of the parameters you named in your mail (varus valgus at the knee, or inversion eversion of the foot).

simi has developed a lot while it may also have limitations on the example parameters listed above.

I have seen very impressive demonstrations of Theia and would guess that their approach has a lot of potential. I am not sure though how much validation has been provided for the things you mentioned.

Hello Uwe, thank you very much for your answer it was very helpful to me.

From what I seem to have understood after having informed myself a little bit, Simi Motion seems to be the most reliable one in terms of validity (not surprisingly it has a very high cost).

However, I don't know too much about Theia, I'm gonna go look for something online.

The parameters I've mentioned are the only ones of strong interest at the moment, so I'll continue the research on the best software in circulation.

Unfortunately there are so many of them that it´s very difficult to know which one is the most suitable.

Would you recommend me Kinetisense? Even if I understand that it´s very basic software.

I am open also for a brief meeting in person since I am working at the German Sport University too.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards

Giordano

Hello Giodarno,

Apart from the systems you have already listed, there are also Simi systems and The Captury.

I don’t know the Simi product, but I have worked with a Captury system over the last years and used it to record pre-school children. You are welcome to contact me for a talk about strengths and weaknesses, setup time, floor space, etc..

Captury:

Here is our work on the validation of the Captury system (in pre-school children)

https://rdcu.be/bOtpY

Kinetisense:

We did a small 3-way comparison of the Kinetisense, the Captury, and our Vicon system using only a single subject. Here is a link to the poster.

https://portal.findresearcher.sdu.dk/files/147638604/The_performance_of_two_in_clinic_markerless_motion_capture.pdf

Kinect:

We did some pilot-testing of the Kinect as well, but based on the face-validity we did not find it could track the pre-school children sufficiently stable. Not published.

mocapr:

Most of the code I have used to calculate performance measures and frontal plane kinematics is available in an R-package “mocapr”, you can find it on GitHub here:

https://github.com/steenharsted/mocapr

You are very welcome to contact me in case you wish to discuss your coming choices. We can have a chat over Skype.

Best regards and good luck with your project,

Steen Harsted

I am also researching markerless mocap options that are validated, and I came across http://www.darisports.com/ (FDA approved). This looks A LOT like the impressive system by The Captury, so I am curious about the differences in these two.

Hi Steen Harsted

Thank you very much for your exhaustive answer it will definitevely help me a lot, thank you also for sharing your github link.

A video-call would be great, I would like to discuss a little bit more in detail about the small 3-way comparison you did with Captuy, Kinetisense and Vicon. The poster you sent me was very interesting to read.

Concerning your paper, it is very interesting too and I'd already downloaded it a while back when I started looking for the right software, it made me curious about The Captury System.

I will write you a private message soon.

Thanks again!

Best regards

Giordano

Hi Amy L Hubbard

thanks a lot for your answer!

I am also looking for something already validated in literature, but it is not so easy.

I wasn´t aware of this software, which is quite new to me but it looks like very interesting.

I´ll be very pleased to find out some more information about it, if you already have something it would be great if you could share it with me.

Thanks in advance!

Best regards

Giordano

Hey Giordano, you should have a talk with Prof. Castro from the department of sports science at the university in Münster. They have a system called MYONARDO which might be interesting for you.

Cheers, Chris

Hi Christian Klein

thank you very much.

I'll certainly contact him for more information about it.

Best regards

Giordano

Hi Amy L Hubbard ,

Since no one has answered your question, I will share what knowledge I have – However limited it may be.

As I understand it, the DARI system builds on the CapturyLive, so the two systems should have some similarities. DARI has made some additional changes to the software, but I don’t know what those changes are, or their extent. Apart from that, DARI also offers a solution to store patient recordings in the DARI vault.

Best regards,

Steen Harsted

Ah ha, thanks Steen.Yes, DARI is really pushing for serious marketability - hence the work put into FDA approval.

We have tried COMETA and STT. Cometa doesn't seem to have the software ready for analysis, they display raw data. STT is very usefriendly,

Thanks for your answer, Silvia.

I´ve just decided to proceed with Kinetisense.

Good day.

I understand that the question is already closed, but I'm interested to find out about your choosing motion capture system.

Why are you looking for markerless motion capture system? There is marker ones that have better time resolution with sample rate around 200+ / second and another beneficial properties.

I just want to discuss it, if you making this topic.

Best regards,

Igor Gajniyarov

Hi Giordano, email human movement scientist [email protected] from www.qinematic.com about their software. A new version is coming out in June using the new Kinect Azure sensor. The skeletal tracking is accurate (cf Qualisys), the software is easy to use, and the recording is automated. You can scan a person every 10 minutes.

PS: Qinematic are looking to do some validation of measures studies on the new software from June/July 2020 - so there could be a pilot project in it for a researcher looking for a project.

PSS: Don't bother with pelvic tilt using TOF without using markers or IMUs (not this year anyway).

Hi Igor Gajniyarov,

I opted for Kinetisense (https://kinetisense.com/), which works in combination with a gaming laptop for a proper graphics and the Intel Realsense Depth Camera D415 (https://www.intelrealsense.com/depth-camera-d415/).

Obviously, I´m aware that systems that can count on markers are more accurate and I would always better choose for Qualisys or Vicon system. However, I feel in recent years there is a change of trend in scientific research that opts for markerless solutions for better applicability, price and ease of use. It´s still an experimental work, but I believe that this would be the correct direction for the future of movement quality analysis.

Also, in my opinion, a second or third division soccer team, for example, interested in pre-injury screening for its youth sector, cannot afford a biomechanical laboratory with markers-based systems (like Qualisys or Vicon) and neither an expert working in it. Biomechanics laboratories and markers-based solutions are of course the best ones but are for elite and high level sports. Just take into consideration that most of the world's population practice mass sport (which mean less sponsor, less money, less facilities and structures etc..) and anyway needs a valid, applicable, qualitative and economically accessible solution for movement analysis.

I hope I was helpful with my answer and excuse me for the delay.

Best regards

Giordano Scinicarelli

Igor Gajniyarov

PS: I'd be very happy if you could share your methods too, so that I can get more detailed information about it. Thanks

Hi Glenn Bilby,

thank you very much for your advice, I am interested in contacting the company even if we have opted for another solution as I have already written above.

I didn't know Qinematic, so thank you for introducing me to another interesting system.

The idea of the pilot study seems very interesting, I will keep you updated for more information.

Concerning the pelvic tilt, I´m thinking about to analyze the frontal plane knee projection angle (FPKPA), does this sounds familiar to you?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards

Giordano

Giordano Scinicarelli

I'm very concerned about affordability of motion capture technology too.

But I choosing a marker MEMS motion capture (based on BMI 16 and similar ones). There are ready made solutions vendors like neuron and xsens. It is not as flexible as i want, so we developed our own architecture.

Unfortunately I don't find how much Kinetisense costs, but our hardware cost about 50$ (at today's exchange rate from rubles to dollars) for 16 markers (without software of course).

We process data not in three-dimensional Euclidean space, but in the dataspace of the source MEMS vectors. It is like word2vec machine learning algorithm in NLP. Where motions are words.

Application field is educational robotics. There are many motor skills that can be learned at home with online teacher. Especially it is actual in the age of coronavirus.

The problem is that when a student is left alone , he forgets a lot of nuances, which makes learning ineffective. We are working on system that, on the one hand, models the right technique of teachers, and on the other hand, reminds the student of correct motion during the training process.

We conducted surveys among athletes on marathon running, teachers of playing the piano (correct positioning and dynamic of hands), voice training (you need to breathe correctly in exercises), psychotherapy (sometimes you need to banal remind a person to breathe!).

If you are interested, I will tell you more about it

That's a good question

Hi Giordano Scinicarelli , we sure do know about the frontal plane knee projection angle. Our tracking algorithms offer export of the XYZ coordinates for hip, knee and ankle, so the angle can be calculated at any time during the squat.

The native tracking algorithms for the knee and ankle are not particularly great using native Kinect tracking algorithms. We have developed our own.

The software for the new Kinect Azure sensor is great, with very good foot and ankle measures - which is critical is you are looking at tasks in closed kinect chain.

If you email Tino, he can give you an online taster in German, or I can take it in English.

We have done a lot of work with lower limb control.

I think theia3d is glowing ✨ these days

Kinovea.

Hi Giordano, what did you decide in the end as we are currently looking between Simi and Theia3d?

Thanks

Kerith Aginsky , if you have the hardware budget and the operating cost budget, you should consider Theia3D - it is impressive for full body biomechanics.

If you want a very practical solution that is simple, affordable and automated, can record a person every 6 minutes for large scale and remote studies such as at sports clubs, gyms, clinics, residential homes, workplaces - then look into Moovment by Qinematic, using the Kinect Azure sensor.

The routine is fixed in order to avoid testing with low reliability and validity - the Kinect cannot record everything well. But with some adjustments, it records some things very well, and the 3D digital twin visualisation (ie the real person and not a stick figure) is excellent for current and future qualitative/quantitative analysis.