These are two positions before the love and liberty. What is your personal viewpoint?
A word that goes together with genuine love is Responsibility.
"Love and Responsibility
Book by Pope John Paul II
Love and Responsibility is a book written by Karol Wojtyła before he became Pope John Paul II and was originally published in Polish in 1960 and in English in 1981. A new, completely updated and original translation was published in 2013. Wikipedia
For me, the love is a reflect of all the personallity. Love with liberty could be a liberalist viewpoint, but freedom for loving is a more moral and intelligent form to act in the life.
A word that goes together with genuine love is Responsibility.
"Love and Responsibility
Book by Pope John Paul II
Love and Responsibility is a book written by Karol Wojtyła before he became Pope John Paul II and was originally published in Polish in 1960 and in English in 1981. A new, completely updated and original translation was published in 2013. Wikipedia
It depond on the nature and degree of relationship of love, especially the personality of the two lovers, the most important thing that we love someone that is spontaneous, it can not be controlling, it is the heart that will guide us to the right direction.
How do you define love, e.g. selfish versus non-selfish, spiritual versus physical, ....?
C'est un mélange de tous les sentiments et les sensations
It is a mixture of all feelings and sensations
Dear @Mariano, love with liberty AND freedom for loving! One does not exclude the other!
For me, the answer it's simple: just love. If there is not any liberty or freedom, then is not about love.
"Freedom, however, is not the last word. Freedom is only part of the story and half of the truth. Freedom is but the negative aspect of the whole phenomenon whose positive aspect is responsibleness. In fact, freedom is in danger of degenerating into mere arbitrariness unless it is lived in terms of responsibleness. That is why I recommend that the Statue of Liberty on the East Coast be supplemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the West Coast."
- Viktor Frankl
Liberty sets the mind free, fostersindependence and unorthodox thinking and ideas. But it does not offer instant prosperity or happinessand wealth to everyone. ~ Boris Yeltsin.
So, the love and freedom , two expressions that never reunited in life.
Dear Colleagues,
Good Day,
This very nice quotation:
“Where there is love there is life.”
---- Indira Gandhi.
See the attached quotation , please.
Love is free, it is from your heart but Freedom is not free, someone has to pay the price.
Dear All
It seems to you that the love of freedom is the key to all loves
Love with liberty- establishes the conditions in which love, an already formed union between parties to enjoy love is carried out - with no control and no string attached of any kind. However freedom to love is our innate and free expression towards nature or to a person but in humans it sometimes be an imposition of love on a person some one wants regardless of the state of mind of the other party, just because he/she is free to love.
Freedom to love is therefore valid in limited way in society but open in nature while love with liberty is the proper way of expressing what love should be.
Dear Mariano,
The greatest lyric Hungarian poet has been Sándor Petőfi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A1ndor_Pet%C5%91fi
He is known as the poet of love and liberty. He must have been killed by the Russians in the war of independence of 1848-49.
One of his emblematic poems is the “Liberty, love”. Here you are the original verse and a quick translation.
Szabadság, szerelem!
E kettő kell nekem.
Szerelmemért föláldozom
Az életet,
Szabadságért föláldozom
Szerelmemet.
(Pest, 1847. január 1.)
Liberty, love!
These two I need.
I sacrifice the life for my love,
I sacrifice my love for the liberty.
I agree with Petőfi. This life approach has been built into Hungarian culture however, many Hungarians may choose the opportunistic ways, that is neither love nor liberty is important only the profit and the money.
Dear Hazim,
The quotation of Samual Adams is really fine. Unfortunately, many people follow this opportunistic way.
To love is to cherish the loved one taking up us the pleasure to satisfy the partner's needs and expectations. To be free is to run away from the bondage of wrong doings which give us a feeling of guilty, sorrow and shame.
It is written in Al-Qur'an (the Islamic Highest Source of Authority) that; "And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquility in them; and He placed between you affection and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.
With this, it is quiet right to love and be loved. However, love must be according to the dictates of Allaah (our Creator) if love must be a way to earn His blessings.
People should not just be allowed to go about loving illegitimately rather, love your legitimate spouse for the sake of Allaah as Muslims and for the sake of God to others.
As such, it should not be as you wish!
Love is a bond between people, while liberty is freedom from bondage. The question about the knot is that how tight is too tight. We don't want the relationship to strangulate and asphyxiate. On the other hand we want to know how loose is too lose. We also do not want it to just fall apart by itself.
It is known of freedom that it comes with a price. The price is duty and character. If we do not pay the price of freedom, but, still enjoy it - someone else always pays the price. It is know that one man's freedom is another man's bondage. It is a question of how much of the share of this cost of freedom in a relationship you bear and how much is paid by the other. It also depends on how much cost are you ready to bear for your freedom and how much the other. If the burden becomes irritating for anyone, it is the time to do some loosening or tightening by you - as it is your freedom that is being paid for.
Love with liberty!
Liberty gives all genuine freedom, and promote love and peace.
Freedom includes Love
http://www.ldsinfobase.net/liberty/ETB_58oct.html
Love and freedom intertwine in human life, forming a core duality in harmony with the ancient concept of yin and yang!
http://www.strike-the-root.com/71/allport/allport8.html
United and understood as yin and yang are two cosmic, creative forces, which are the origin to everything and which accordingly are considered the father and mother of all human beings - Tao
http://www.biroco.com/yijing/unity_of_yin_and_yang.pdf
yin and yang are two opposing forces: when one decreases in strength the other increases and visa verse
Dear All,
Practically each of the participants stressed the importance of both, love and freedom but without distinction of any of them. These expressions seemed to be somehow sterile and impersonal.
There is an imperative lack of most of these comments that only love towards to our fellow men can bring the freedom or the mutual and general freedom for everybody can provide the opportunity of love. It is only the contribution of Miranda, which tried to lead the attention to this direction showing the Catholic aspect of love.
This convergence of opinions is a huge historically developed human achievement. There is still two crucial questions whether how many percentage of society agree with this? Why are not love and freedom the leading forces of societies or relationships among people?
Dear Mariano,
I tend to agree with Roland. Libertarian philosophy is an inadequate way of life.
Cheers,
Victor
Dear Roland,
Dear All,
Christian philosophy has united the theories of love and freedom. However, there is a third principle, the justice. Without justice, love and freedom – the perfectness of life - cannot be realised. I think that the following of justice (truth) is the most difficult task and hampers to achieve love and freedom. People do not want to obey the justice and thus they are not able to follow what Jesus suggested us: “A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another.” The trouble is that there are too many Pharisees and they love only themselves.
The marriage as an institution is needed. Individualists claim their right to pursue their "freedom or liberty" and neglect the needs of the offsprings
With respect to the Christian love, St. Agustin of Hipona wrote:
"Love, and do that you like".
Ivan Gundulić, was the most prominent Croatian Baroque poet.
Gundulić's most famous play is Dubravka, a pastoral written in 1628, where he rhapsodises on the former glory of Dubrovnik and contains some of the most famous verses in Croatian literature:
"Fair liberty, beloved liberty, liberty sweetly avowed,
thou are the treasured gift that God to us endowed,
all our glory is thy true creation,
to our Home thou are all the decoration,
no silver nor gold, not life itself could replace
the reward of thy pure and sublime grace."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Gunduli%C4%87
Pure love has no boundaries and selfless love is equated with Godliness. People conditioned by their qualities, qualifications and society express love diversely depending on the relationship. Love towards mother has a component of respect, love for wife has romance embedded in it, love for daughter has an additional responsibility and protection components in it, love for sisters, friends, relatives similarly is not a singular expression. People also love their countries, homes, materialistic possessions, career, subjects, pet animals/birds, garden/flowers etc.
Jesus said: "The truth will do you free". And the truth is not free. So for loving it is necessary to know the truth.
Jesus said: "Who loves me, will keep my word" and "Who does not love me, does not keep my word". If Jesus is God, we should know his word to love freely.
Can we dismiss the idea of love in the animal kingdom? People say their dogs love them unconditionally. Instances of pet animals giving up their lives after their masters died are not uncommon.
Freedom for loving is the result of liberty. Liberty is basic essential for every positive and constructive action.
In my opinion, "love with liberty" seems a waste of energy which could lead to a chaotic pace of life. I agree with Miranda's key term "responsibility" covering all dimensions .....
Dear Michaela,
Regarding the Marxist meaning of liberty, it contains also the responsibility: freedom is the recognised necessity. Unlimited freedom cannot exist.
By the way, how does "love with liberty" waste the energy?
And what about the degree of liberty?
An important thing about liberty and love is the Law, the right. It must be an important thing in the love, as the justice and the compassion.
The open war that is being fought between two systems of ideas which return different and conflicting answers to what has long been the central question of politics - the question of obedience and coercion. 'Why should I (or anyone) obey anyone else?' 'Why should I not live as I like?' 'Must I obey?' 'If I disobey, may I be coerced?' 'By whom, and to what degree, and in the name of what, and for the sake of what?'
https://www.wiso.uni-hamburg.de/fileadmin/wiso_vwl/johannes/Ankuendigungen/Berlin_twoconceptsofliberty.pdf
When the man loves, it will make any things impossible pleased him.
Falling in Love in Search of Freedom!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tanushree-ghosh/falling-in-love-in-search-of-freedom_b_7737748.html
Dear @Mariano, here are contributions of Cardinal Karol Wojtyla / P opeJohn Paul II .
Love Wins When Freedom Is Used To Love God Above All!
"Freedom is at the same time offered to man and imposed upon him as a task. It is in the first place an attribute of the human person and in this sense it is a gift of the Creator and an endowment of human nature. For this reason it is also the lawful right of man; man has a right to freedom, to self-determination, to the choice of his life career, to acting according to his own convictions. Freedom has been given to man by his Creator in order to be used, and to be used well (cf. Gen 4:7). But man may not abuse his freedom (cf. Gal 4, 31-5, 1), for, as we know perfectly well from sad experience, he can abuse his liberty. He can do wrong because he is free (cf. 1 Pet 2:16)..."
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/philip-kosloski/god-gave-us-freedom-in-order-to-do-good-not-to-commit-evil
http://www.ewtn.com/library/Doctrine/EUCHCONG.HTM
I think it is really difficult to answer this question, therefore I would rather state my own point of view on this question. Love is a felling, something that empowers us to care about other people as well. Those who fall out of love when they see a new man or woman on the horison, actually only care about themselves. Their feelings, and their passions. Therefore, I need to understand what exactly you mean with liberty to love, and freedom to love. In some countries poor woman are kind of sold to their future husbands, or they are contracted to marry these men. I do not think I would ever be able to love such a man, therefore I believe we need freedom to choose the man or woman we want to spend the rest of our lives with. It is not only a responsibility, it is a commitment made to a person that he or she will be safe and cared for until death do us part. Today, people are quick to find new loved ones - I believe the grass is greener on the other side - because we do not appreciate what we have.
So, liberty and freedom are not the same, they are not synonyms?
I have done some search about.
"Freedom is a state of being capable of making decisions without external control.
Liberty, on the other hand, is freedom which has been granted to a people by an external control..."
http://the-penultimate-word.com/2011/05/30/liberty-or-freedom-the-difference-is-amazing/
“Liberty” is the power to act and express oneself according to one’s will while “freedom” is the power to decide one’s actions.
Liberty is the condition wherein individuals behave according to their will and govern themselves, taking responsibility for their actions and behaviors. Having liberty does not necessarily mean going against ethics and moral values.It is classified into:
Positive liberty --- wherein individuals act on their own will without being influenced by social restrictions and taboos, and
Negative liberty --- wherein individuals act without being influenced or coerced by other people.
“Freedom” is a more concrete concept than “liberty” which is more associated with an individual’s connection with the state rather than with other individuals and circumstances.
http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/politics/difference-between-liberty-and-freedom/
Other important aspect of the love and the freedom is the fidelity.
Dear Subhash,
I share the desire of Roland: would you be as kind as to explain more thoroughly the difference between liberty and freedom?
Unfortunately, our verbal perception is a bit deformed by the structures and use of our native languages.
Even the expression “negative liberty” is specific statement.
Full definition of liberty: (Mariam-Webster)
1: the quality or state of being free:
a : the power to do as one pleases
b : freedom from physical restraint
c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic control
d : the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges
e : the power of choice
2
a : a right or immunity enjoyed by prescription or by grant : privilege
b : permission especially to go freely within specified limits
3
: an action going beyond normal limits: as
a : a breach of etiquette or propriety : familiarity
b : risk, chance
c : a violation of rules or a deviation from standard practice
d : a distortion of fact
4
: a short authorized absence from naval duty usually for less than 48 hours
— at liberty
1: free
2: at leisure : unoccupied
Full definition of freedom (Mariam-Webster)
Definition of FREEDOM
1
: the quality or state of being free: as
a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action
b : liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : independence
c : the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous
d : ease, facility
e : the quality of being frank, open, or outspoken
f : improper familiarity
g : boldness of conception or execution
h : unrestricted use
2
a : a political right
b : franchise, privilege
The wortd "liberty" is somewhat broader than "freedom".
Liberty --- is the power to act and express oneself according to one’s will while freedom --- is the power to decide one’s actions.
Further, Freedom usually means to be free from something, whereas Liberty usually means to be free to do something, although both refer to the quality or state of being free.
Both of you are correct, such instances are available, Dear Marković and Roland.
Dear All,
I am afraid the dictionary meaning of words depends highly from the language use, grammar, the historical development of the country where the dictionary was published. Here you are the explications of the Oxford dictionary http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/liberty.
Interestingly, the meaning of freedom and liberty seem to be the reverse what Subhash presented and shows clearly the difference between the British and American aspects.
FREEDOM
See definition in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary
Line breaks: free|dom
Pronunciation: /ˈfriːdəm/
Definition of freedom in English:
noun
[MASS NOUN]
1The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants:we do have some freedom of choice[COUNT NOUN]: he talked of revoking some of the freedoms
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCESSYNONYMS
1.1Absence of subjection to foreign domination or despotic government:he was a champion of Irish freedom
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCESSYNONYMS
1.2The power of self-determination attributed to the will; the quality of being independent of fateor necessity.
EXAMPLE SENTENCESSYNONYMS
2The state of not being imprisoned or enslaved:the shark thrashed its way to freedom
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCESSYNONYMS
2.1The state of being unrestricted and able to move easily:the shorts have a side split for freedom of movement
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
2.2Unrestricted use of something:the dog has the freedom of the house when we are out
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
3(freedom from) The state of not being subject to or affected by (something undesirable):government policies to achieve freedom from want
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCESSYNONYMS
4(the freedom of ——) British A special privilege or right of access, especially that of fullcitizenship of a city granted to a public figure as an honour:he accepted the freedom of the City of Glasgow
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
5archaic Familiarity or openness in speech or behaviour.
EXAMPLE SENTENCESSYNONYMS
Origin
Old English frēodōm (see free, -dom).
LIBERTY
See definition in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary
Line breaks: lib|erty
Pronunciation: /ˈlɪbəti/
Definition of liberty in English:
noun (plural liberties)
[MASS NOUN]
1The state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one’s behaviour or political views:compulsory retirement would interfere with individual liberty
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCESSYNONYMS
1.1The state of not being imprisoned or enslaved:people who attacked phone boxes would lose their liberty
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
1.2The power or scope to act as one pleases:individuals should enjoy the liberty to pursue their own preferences
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCESSYNONYMS
1.3Philosophy A person’s freedom from control by fate or necessity.
EXAMPLE SENTENCES
2[COUNT NOUN] (usually liberties) A right or privilege, especially a statutory one:the Bill of Rights was intended to secure basic civil liberties
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCESSYNONYMS
3[COUNT NOUN] informal A presumptuous remark or action:how did he know what she was thinking?—it was a liberty!
4Nautical Shore leave granted to a sailor.
EXAMPLE SENTENCES
Phrases
at liberty
1
1Not imprisoned:he was at liberty for three month
Hundreds of wise proverbs, from famous and unknown people about love and freedom. One who has collected deserves praise!
For dear @Andras:
“Liberty and love
These two I must have.
For my love I’ll sacrifice
My life.
For liberty I’ll sacrifice
My love.” ― Sándor Petőfi
http://www.midnightangel308.com/love_quote.htm
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/598593-liberty-and-love-these-two-i-must-have-for-my
Dear Ljubomir Jacić,
Excellent interpretation of love, liberty, sacrifice ... and!
Dear Roland; the love to your neighbour as yourself is contained in the Bible, in the old testament, in Leviticus, more than three milleniums before.
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
― Benjamin Franklin, Memoirs of the life & writings of Benjamin Franklin
Dear Colleagues,
Good Day,
"Genuine freedom is possible only where there is genuine love. And genuine love is not possible without truth."
-------- Michael O'Brien
Fadel Djamel,
must say it sounds a bit odd from a female perspective
@ Béatrice
Possible that I badly expressed myself. My intention is quite different
A very good example.. when you like a rose you pluck it.. when you love it..you water it.
No freedom for loving...
We are free to love only to the extent that we aren't forced into it by guilt, shame, fear of abandonment, or, worst of all, the interpretation of vulnerable feelings as emotional needs...
@Béatrice
That of very good intentions with the respect which I owe to everybody
Addiction and Freedom
Falling in love often feels choiceless; it seems to break through our defenses, sometimes even against our will. Being in love, however, is something we say yes to. It is a willing yielding into love’s presence. It is a conscious easing of defenses. When we accept the presence of love and give ourselves to it, we glimpse immense freedom and spaciousness. There is room to move around, unencumbered by fear and doubt.
http://ir.nmu.org.ua/bitstream/handle/123456789/12433/7648829ffb5c23603b4819c61c7d8af1.pdf?sequence=1
What light is to the eyes - what air is to the lungs - what love is to the heart, liberty is to the soul of man.
--- Robert Green Ingersoll
Freedom does not signify that we are free to act badly but we are free to act well with liberty and loving to all ones.
Indeed freedom in the right action is a reflection of the freedom of others
“When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty.”
--- John Basil Barnhill.
Few things are more reconfortable as the love and friendship with old friends.
"The greatest gift of life is friendship, and I have received it." -Hubert H. Humphrey
The love without liberty has been frequent in several points of the geography. An example, the bishop Ma Daqin of Shangay.
When we love freedom or simply the freedom we are free to love anyone.
@ Ljubomir
The quote of Humphrey really touched me
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