Water under 250 Bar artificially applied pressure, even if heated to 340 Celsius, remains as water. So if I can bring hot oil, and remove cold oil economically with a Heatgate, through the pressure, and the water stays as water, can I use a .1mm copper interface?
2nd, question, if the artificial pressure is maintained at 400 Bar, what happens if we used hot salt to heat it up to 450 Celsius, over the critical point, can I still use the .1mm copper?
The question does not a clear description of the system. If you are using a thin wall copper tube to safely carry pressurized hot water it may fracture. The design seems dangerous.
I think the design is impractical. The pipe will be damaged and burst. Copper is not recommended for any applications with temperatures over 260C.
Can the copper wall of the pipe or walls with a thickness of 0.3 mm be 300 bar? I think not, and the most vulnerable place in the experiment. The boundary conditions of the experiment need to be more accurately determined
As with your other correspondents I wouldn't trust 0.1 mm copper above 1 bar let alone 400. You MIGHT be able to arrange the pressure difference across your copper tube to be less than 1 bar by pressurising the heating fluid. But this just removes the problem to another point in the system. Redesign your experiment.
Tony Maine, Sir, thank you for understanding the relativity issue. In regards to the next issue, how to get thermal fluid into a 400 Bar scenario, and how to get the spent thermal fluid out, the next issue you so correctly put, the solution, the low overhead solution, is to use this Heatgate ...... https://youtu.be/phGaFavF5GQ Sorry that my crude video is aimed at fixing the pressure issues associated with trans-critical co2, I am confident your fine ability will make the correlation. I would appreciate your consideration of the device. there is some small decompression associated that can be remedied. Thank you again.
The pressure is maintained by hydraulics on the thermal fluid correct.
I understand my question did not make it easy for others to understand the relativity issue, sorry for that.
In the same way a whales organs don't rupture when it dives 1 km down, equal pressure either side of the copper, equates to nil pressure. Consider the copper a diaphragm and it becomes evident that the thinner the copper the more equal the pressure, overfilling aside that is.
This exactly equal pressure each side of the membrane between 2 media in heat exchange is the essence of the Heatgates importance.
I'm thinking the correct restriction in the use of copper to under 250 Celsius is based on pressure issues.
I looked at the 'Heatgate' device you recommended. Please don't waste your time on it. IT WILL NOT WORK. You need to have sliding valves specified to operate at the pressure levels required and these are NOT EASY TO MAKE and will probably leak. Even ON/OFF in-line valves for this pressure are expensive. In my opinion your only solution is to use much, much thicker copper walled vessels and accept the reduced heat flow. Best wishes with your experiment!
WE HAVE A WORKING HEATGATE IN BRISBANE.
Its in Strathpine Brisbane, your city. premises of EBSA, and yes it has 2 in-line valves as per your suggestion. I'll be in Brisbane sometime between the 13 th and 15th and would love to show it to you working.
With regards to the fancy valving in the video. It's a simple hydraulic valve, and yes it can leak.
There is decompression when thermal liquid is swapped from high pressure to low pressure, leakage can be remedied at the same time as we remedy the decompression.
At 100 bar, per liter processed, we need to put back 5 ml. this is 1/200th the overhead pumping cost against pressure of using a conventional water feed pump.
The working Heatgate I can show you is a vital component of an externally heated, solar vacuum distillation Proto-type. As such it proves the Heatgate. It does not prove my ability to design or make valves, I grant you that for sure.
I am pleased that you have got a Heatgate working - I still think the sliding valves will cause a lot of problem in practice, and for this application the pressure is 4 times what you have used. But there is another issue with this design, that it may be (I am not sure I understand what the researcher is trying to do) that the working fluid - water - is to have its pressure reduced to atmospheric in the Heatgate. I hope it is well understood what water at 320C will do if its pressure is suddenly reduced to atmospheric . . . I think that this work requires the attention and involvement of a qualified mechanical engineer used to working with extremely high pressure fluids and valves. Even reducing the pressure of water at 320C to atmospheric will require special valving and a heat removal system to perform safely. I do hope all the relevant safety precautions are being taken in this endeavour. Nevertheless, all pioneering work requires effort and some risk - so I hope it can all be made to work safely. At the moment I am very nervous about this process.
Thank you for your Answer Sir.
You are correct, it is virtually a condition of the device that the liquid is not the working fluid of any device, but the buffer fluid bringing or removing heat. This because the device cannot handle any liquid that will vaporize on decompression as you state.
The above because it cannot maintain it's status as 200 times better than a feed pump in cases where it needs to re compress gas to make up for decompression.
So liquids only.
water ideally at temperatures below 90 Celsius,
commercially available thermal oil to 350 Celsius,
molten salts above that.
I fully understand the dangers. You are right in that also. And now I confess, the prototype worked between ambient and .2 bar in the vacuum distiller, where it allows water heated in cheap black plastic remotely, to enter and exit the vacuum. (2 inch valves were bought from pool shop for $50 each). Yes whole prototype including automation cost under $10k.
With the one in the video, https://youtu.be/phGaFavF5GQ we are talking to one of the top 100 corporations in the world, that they might initially use the device to act as pressure mediator in transcritical co2 refrigeration.
I promise to engage qualified experts before engaging the project of this question, your suggestion is accepted, thank you again Tony Maine Sir, and thank you again for taking the time to understand the Heatgate.
A heatgate is simply a pressure exchanger, similar the those used in reverse osmosis desalination, which can be seen on google, wherein the 3% pv slippage is made up by external pump.
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