Dear Vasiliy

The old argument is that economics is not a science. The reason was usually that economic agents do not behave like an electron. Yet some people have hopes that it can be. Paul Samuelson, for instance, thought that we can do economics like we can do physics. He went on to give economics a highly mathematical treatment. Arrow and Debreu thought that they can give the mathematical assumptions that would characterize Adam Smith economic model. Also, I noticed that some European countries give a BSc instead of a BA degree in economics.

I am aware that most of what I said falls under the positive methodology of economics. But many people would do economics from a paradigmatic or research program point of view, which are considered alternative definitions of science. So we have to factor in what are the criteria for being scientific as well.

Dear Vasiliy

The old argument is that economics is not a science. The reason was usually that economic agents do not behave like an electron. Yet some people have hopes that it can be. Paul Samuelson, for instance, thought that we can do economics like we can do physics. He went on to give economics a highly mathematical treatment. Arrow and Debreu thought that they can give the mathematical assumptions that would characterize Adam Smith economic model. Also, I noticed that some European countries give a BSc instead of a BA degree in economics.

I am aware that most of what I said falls under the positive methodology of economics. But many people would do economics from a paradigmatic or research program point of view, which are considered alternative definitions of science. So we have to factor in what are the criteria for being scientific as well.

As a humble economist, I can only remember some quotes from John M. Keynes, which I consider quite relevant for the BEGINNING of this interesting discussion:

(1) "The master-economist must possess a rare combination of gifts .... He must be mathematician, historian, statesman, philosopher—in some degree. (...) He must contemplate the particular, in terms of the general, and touch abstract and concrete in the same flight of thought. He must study the present in the light of the past for the purposes of the future. No part of man's nature or his institutions must be entirely outside his regard. He must be purposeful and disinterested in a simultaneous mood, as aloof and incorruptible as an artist, yet sometimes as near to earth as a politician."

(2) "The political problem of mankind is to combine three things: economic efficiency, social justice and individual liberty."

(3) "The businessman is only tolerable so long as his gains can be held to bear some relation to what, roughly and in some sense, his activities have contributed to society."

(4) "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone."

(5) "The day is not far off when the economic problem will take the back seat where it belongs, and the arena of the heart and the head will be occupied or reoccupied, by our real problems - the problems of life and of human relations, of creation and behavior and religion." (6) "If economists could manage to get themselves thought of as humble, competent people on a level with dentists, that would be splendid."

What is taught generally as economics is a profession, i.e. for the practice of private wealth management and accumulation, since Sumer. Of course, there exist alternative approaches, which are closer to the scientific method and deal with the common good. The call for an exact science is too much, at the moment, but advanced computation will open new gateways of precise research, concerning the balance of public and private wealth.

Conference Paper The Hidden Physics of Human Progress and Poverty

Yes, if we are not reacting against Civilization in a manner that protect related consequences, like Environmental Pollution and not cultivating better generation to secure it, then it will become Self Destructing processes.

I agree with Lall B. Ramrattan, economic agents do not behave predictably like electrons. People as economic agents have free will which allow them to behave in any way possible. As long as economic deals with people as economic agents, it would not be an exact science.

What economists can do is trying to simplify the behavior of economic agents by applying several assumptions. This way, economists are able to develop models which are helpful in understanding economic phenomena. Nevertheless, people, particularly, policy makers often forget these assumptions and blame economists for inaccurate prediction. Indeed, advanced computation as mentioned by Stephen I. Ternyik, will enable economists to add more models, variables and data which will produce more accurate calculation and prediction.

The criterion of science is not only an explanation of what was, but also a prediction. If the economy is coping well with the first demand, the situation with the second function is much worse. But the economy is no exception. There is a whole spectrum of sciences that study the previous and partly the present state of the systems, but these have little to say about the future. In this case, the question is not only to the economics, but also to sociology, ecology, demography, etc. As long as economics and other sciences about the functioning of human society in the conditions of the Earth will be separate and will perceive complex research as work at the “interface of sciences” (or boundary of sciences), the situation will not change. A unified approach to the problem is needed, such as in "physical chemistry", where it is very difficult to separate purely physical and chemical studies. As for mathematics, it is able to chew on everything. Having a model and calculations is not a science, it is a method here.

Vadim S. Gorshkov Prediction and precision, concerning economics as science, can only be done by quantifiable variables, e.g. energy. One notable approach is biophysical economics: Book Energy and the Wealth of Nations: Understanding the Biophysi...

https://www.isbpe.info/

Book World System Thermodynamics/Global Wave Energetics

A workable assumption of this approach is that: societal development depends on increasing energy efficiency of the body economic. Value preferences and priorities are about free human choice, but the aggregate 'bill' can be measured via energy efficiency (physics) of a socio-economic system.

I agree with Lall B. Ramrattan

Originally, economics is not a science (therefore, the problem does not arise).

To try to become science, the economy has adopted, over time, mathematical approaches (statistical, to be precise).

There is always the problem and the difficulty of those who "handle" the material, which often escapes the control of people, who are not considered to do it.

Stephen I. Ternyik

In my opinion, this is the "black box" approach. Quite reasonably, but not enough. It is very difficult to say what exactly is happening inside the system and how it can be influenced. But I am not an expert here and I can argue only from the general scientific position.

Gioacchino de Candia

Economics, certainly is science, and math it uses very actively. This is not the problem, the problem is the narrowness of the approach. Moreover, the use of mathematics is not a criterion of science. If we stand at that position, then numerology and astrology can be ranked as sciences, and philosophy, history and philology should be excluded.

Vadim S. Gorshkov You are right. Medicine is in a better position to look into the black box, due to advanced technology. For economics, advanced computation could be a methodical pathway.

Economics at best is a pseudo-science. Since the days of modeling by Dr. John Nash economics has been elevated to a high level. When the market continues to grow healthily and then drops people call that a "correction." Yet the same people are not able to predict a pending disaster. It is as inexact as demography, a field I have worked in for the last few years. Of course mathematical modeling can be used to fit any nonsense going on in the world

Vadim S. Gorshkov

I reiterate my position.

Numerology and astrology are not to be considered even for a pizza.

Philosophy, history and philology are not sciences.

Gioacchino de Candia

Yes, this view about humanitarian researches is common among narrow specialists.

SOCIO-ECONOMIC ACTIVE FORCES.

Why we can not, do not know how or do not want to understand nature as it is?

Namely - the same thing.

Because since childhood we have not been taught to understand: the physics of action and the result, the basis of thinking. At school and university this is taught. BUT: everyone remembers the theory, but few understand it.

Hunger, cold, heat - a physical, chemical, biological cause of action, like a charge for an electron.

A disease is a physical, chemical, biological, social cause of action, as well as a magnetic and electric field for an electron.

Reproduction is a physical, chemical, biological, social reason for the action of self-preservation.

Unemployed - as a free socio-economic electron in the metal, looking for its place in orbit, its workplace.

Science is a physical, chemical, biological, social, economic cause of actions from ignorance to knowledge to create products that protect everyone from cold, hunger, disease, poor quality and short life.

The product (service) as a gravitational field of mass attracts.

Labor is the only socio-economic action that creates GDP. If you can do without the rich, but not without the smart, then without labor, society will not exist. It will be just a herd in the jungle for natural food.

The population is increasing, problems with ecosystems will change the economic rules for the accumulation of empty capital to the economic rules for protecting the population from self-destruction.

We must begin to model these active socio-economic forces, impulses, energy, systems, problems of functioning and sustainability.

Physics, chemistry, biology and sociology passed from non-science to science. The economy will also be held with the same understanding of the rules of "transport" (economic) security.

1. Physicists 400 lnt ago learned to simulate horsepower.

2. Economists have not yet learned how to model labor.

3. The movement of the material system from state A to state B is carried out: linearly, parabolic, hyperbolic, elliptic, stochastic. Often - indefinitely.

4. The energy-informational method is used for case 3, when only known: the parameters of the initial state A and final state B.