All the cells of the human body have chromosomes Aparna; the special morphology of the skin cells makes them follow the shape of the body allowing it perhaps to give the Image of TS Man who has been scientifically determined by teams of medical clinicians, one in Spain, and the other in Italy, to be Jesus Christ.

All cells including the skin cells follow the same basic cell cycle well known across biology including metaphase-anaphase which is thought to be when the UV occurs and the chromosomes divide into their daughter chromatids. This is an abrupt chemical rupture at the heart of the chromosome and provides an impulse of UV down the axis of the chromosomes.Each cell in the body is thought to have the one single UV frequency during the cell cycle.

best regards Tony

The explanation is very simple: it looks like a negative because it is an imprint, where the more prominent local 3D external anatomical shapes of the body (which usually appear bright when the body is exposed to light) imprinted TS with special dark color pigment.

There are very strong arguments that TS is a medieval forgery: you first have to defeat those arguments before emitting any other speculations.

https://phys.org/news/2005-06-turin-shroud-fake.html

https://phys.org/news/2009-10-italian-group-debunk-shroud-turin.html

https://phys.org/news/2009-10-italian-group-debunk-shroud-turin.html

There is also a study made on the DNA found on TS:

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep14484

However, the subject is still open and very interesting, as there are now some new debates on TS:

https://phys.org/news/2009-11-faint-shroud-turin.html

https://physicsworld.com/a/reversal-of-fortune-for-turin-shroud/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8966422/Italian-study-claims-Turin-Shroud-is-Christs-authentic-burial-robe.html

Dear All

We will have to respectfully agree to disagree with some of you, while others I note show genuine interest.

There has been nothing suggested so far in physics after a hundred years of trying that gives the necessary superficiality as the Shroud of Turin which is known to be about 200 nm, the size of the primary cell wall of the flax linen structure, and that includes painting and other artistic (man-made) renderings. The image is thought to be a ‘dehydration’ of this surface within the primary cell wall of the linen fibres.

This present study looking at human chromosomes attempts to follow the research by Paolo Di Lazarro and others that showed that an ArF Excimer laser applied to Shroud-like linen gave a very similar coloration as seen on the Shroud of Turin in 2010. (see http://www.enea.it/it/seguici/pubblicazioni/EAI/anno-2012/knowledge-diagnostics-and-preservation-of-cultural-heritage/the-conservation-of-the-shroud-of-turin-optical-studies). The frequency in that experiment was 193 nm; the diameter of the human chromosome which is thought to be a 30 nm,has a resonant frequency of 188 nm, very close to the ArF Excimer laser wavelength.

The project’s line of reasoning zeroes in on the ‘strange coincidence’ that the chromosomes of the skin are also a perfect mediator of the Image in that skin cells are conformal with the shape and surface of the body. Could the image be produced when the skin cells of TS Man proceed through their cell cycle specifically at the time when metaphase moves into anaphase? It is known that biological cells do signal each other and this might be via UV where the chromosomes in each cell are acting as antennas able to signal beyond the limits of the body. In other words the UV is coming from WITHIN TS Man’ body and radiating outwards from the body of TS Man.

In other words there's something that is forming a resonance across the primary cell wall; it might be acting like a nano-antenna.

Have a look at the following papers

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1001/1001.5063.pdf

http://www.cell.com/joule/pdf/S2542-4351(17)30019-3.pdf

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1511/1511.03140.pdf

Figure 2 in the last paper is particularly relevant to the skin cells of the body.

Hi Aleksandar

So how else did the Image come about? If not by a 'near-resonance' or 'off-resonance' effect in the flax linen primary cell wall? How else did the 'dehydration' in the top 200 nm occur? Was this some medieval artistic and scientific genius who knew how to get a dehydration effect WITHOUT burning the shroud he/she was working with??

I'm listening for your ideas on this, otherwise I will continue to seek the 'resonant nanoantenna' hypothesis.

And soon I'll return to the nub of the matter and that is in the original question: why is there a negative image if the phase of any UV wave is variable at the variable surface of TS Man, whereas the 'photo-like' image is a NEGATIVE image not a 'variable phase' image??!!

Aleksandar I like to know who I'm talking to, and I like your work on chromosomes including the CCD microscopy, so I respect you; and I like your approach to them, very much mathematical, and very beneficial for the whole of humanity; being a mathematician too I can see what you are doing; although I have much to learn from you about your work. I am interested in how a magnetic field might be involved in reading them, manipulating them (magnetic tweezers) and replicating them; so a field approach to cell biology

Maybe too you have some things to learn from me about chromosomes? (e.g. why does the Ising model get involved in reading the sequences?) Read my work on the biology of cell colonies, also a very beneficial study for humankind hopefully by giving us a way to understand better the cell cycle by understanding how the fields fit in than trying to understand with biochemistry on its own.

Conference Paper A range of fields over the spectrum in a cell colony may con...

It's good to do what gives you pleasure.

You are very kind Aleksandar for YOUR recommendations and I accept unhesitatingly your kind offer to collaborate somehow on the chromosomes wrt to the TS. I think we are both well placed to perform some sort of research into the chromosomes and their role in biology and the cell cycle.

warm regards Tony

Me too Aleksandar

Almost 69 years have flown by and I too fell the weight of my bones, at least you have sailing and diving; I just have an overgrown garden that needs mowing and 'whippersnipper-ing' (rotary trimmer with a piece of plastic that cuts weeds). The advantage of 'feeling our bones' of course (and I see you have worked this out) is that you become less entangled with 'mainstream opinion' and more able to see other valid paths through reality and physics.

I am grateful I still have my wife (who has a slow growing tumour in the brain that is effecting her mobility but thankfully she has a good sense of humour- well she laughs at all my jokes) and am not looking forward to what comes next for both of us; but for now we can still enjoy our children who are 37 and 39. She needs help every day to do shopping and getting out of her chair to stumble around with a walking stick.

There's two areas where older buggers like us (with knowledge about biophysics and chromosomes) might spend some neural power:

(a) trying to come up with a mathematical simulation of a cell cycle ; a fractal mathematical model that is a dynamic model of a cell colony that changes over time using some of the concepts in my paper about the endogenous fields to go from electrostatic to VUV fields (and beyond); I think this task will be ideal for a (bio-) mathematics branch of a science faculty within a university somewhere; my alma mater Monash University is one candidate I have thought about; maybe you know another mathematical and biology centre?

(b) Doing some 'nanoantenna' experiments within 'phantom skin cells';

what I mean is a 'mock-up' of what I suspect might be happening inside TS Man's Body; it would require some 'chromosomes' with small nm diameters perhaps lined up one behind another as at metaphase to see what the radiation pattern looks like to see if they combine their 'lobes' to create a shroud-like radiation pattern. This might need some 'quantum-dot emitters' inside some sort of gel to simulate the cytoplasm and extracellular plasma.

best Tony

Sorry this took some time to think out over the weekend

Aleksander I smoked (heavily) till I was married about age 28 when my wife Dianne made me either give up or sleep in a separate bed; needless to say I gave up smoking!

good luck you too Tony

I go with Dr Tony

Aleksandar and All

Although our chromosomes are not metallic (yet, outside of Terminator the movie) we might be able to build a nanoscale coil like the so-called 'solenoid' of the chromosome (30 nm diameter) and put it inside a 'skin' mock-up gel to see if a composite antenna structure is feasible. We might find that an antenna array made up of these metallic coils might be able to produce high magnification and widespread beam. We remember here that quantum dots are at the limit between the small atomic quantum physics world and the classical continuous macroscopic word.

Maybe too such an antenna made of coiled 'solenoid' elements and not straight wire segments (as per conventional arrays) might be an entirely new sort of useful emitter totally outside of studies more focused on TS Man. Might these be useful biologically for treating skin cancers etc?? Might such a flexible 'skin' antenna array be useful as a follow-up to resectioning of deep tissue cancer tumours?

Interesting discussion. However, I take the side of Dr. Tony.

Hi Aparna

Can you give more detail? MRI vs alignment of dipoles?

Thank you.

Hi Aparna

Thanks. Looks like good stuff; will get back in a couple of days after a reading or two

My (small) contribution to this discussion is in reference to the comment of MD Dragoi, who wrote:

"it looks like a negative because it is an imprint, where the more prominent local 3D external anatomical shapes of the body (which usually appear bright when the body is exposed to light) imprinted TS with special dark color pigment."

This is partially correct: I would rephrase in this way: the body images on the Shroud looks like an imprint, yet there is no chance to obtain a 200 nm thick coloration depth on linen by using pigments. 200 nm is the depth of color of the body images on the Shroud, indeed. The color of the images on the Shroud is due to dehydration of the primary cell wall of linen fibers which allows formation of chromophores, it is a sort of accelerated aging which may be obtained by e.g., a weak acid, but again, acid acts on the whole linen yarn, not on a so thin depth. As a matter of fact, despite countless attempts, to date nobody was able to obtain a 100% Shroud-like coloration.

Dr Dragoi also wrote:

"There are very strong arguments that TS is a medieval forgery: you first have to defeat those arguments before emitting any other speculations."

Well, your googling gave you quite old and not updated information. I suggest reading this National Geographic article by Viviano (2015): https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/150417-shroud-turin-relics-jesus-catholic-church-religion-science/

Enjoy.

All the best

Paolo

Dear Paolo

ASIDE Dear Aparna I'm getting back to you in a separate comment; in brief I think there is a lot of good prospective biophysics in thinking about these nanoantennas, both as a means of interstitial MRI (as you suggest), and also delivery of heat to destroy any remaining cancer cells following surgery to remove the tumour. I'm thinking of putting a piece of manufactured flexible 'skin' embedded with nano-antenna arrays inside where the tumour was just cut out to deliver heating to deep tissue cancers to kill any remnant cells that might have been missed by the surgeon when performing the resection.

Paolo

Many thanks for that article; much of it I agree wholeheartedly. Some of it I personally still have to learn the details, especially what are the chromophore molecular structures and how were they tested for in the laboratory to distinguish them from pigments; can we determine at the molecular level what the 'concentration per volume' of the primary cell wall (PCW) of the linen"? Am I right to assume we have use chemical tests plus spectroscopy or microscopy? Might we be able to determine the 'density' or 'molarity' of these molecules at depth within the PCW?If we can't do this by current limits of technology might there be a time in the near future when we might be able to see if there is a 'resonance' in the concentration of chromophores across the depth of the PCW, a resonance effect within the PCW?

I agree we are in a position as of 2018 with a partial knowledge of what happened to create the Image. How TS Man came about is still unknown to us at this point in time. If the Shroud is authentic then how did the carbon dating of 1988 come about as 1290-1360; at the same time if it is a medieval copy as Dr Dragoi has suggested, then how was it done if we can't do it with all the technology of current science at our disposal as of 2015? We are in a cleft stick with difficulties on both sides of the ledger.

As to the future directions of science and the Shroud I am hopeful we are in a position where our science is focusing in on the Turin Shroud and its truth; we may perhaps be able to determine what occurred via the scientific method perhaps starting with a study of nano-antenna radiation patterns. Our final finding may be 'outside' of current mainstream science, but we not there yet; we have a new avenue for fruitful VUV research that began with the work you yourself, Giulio Fanti, and others at ENEA performed some years ago.

kind regards Tony

Reply To Mr. Paolo Di Lazzaro:

1. When I have used the formula "imprinted TS with special dark color pigment", I have used the term "pigment" in its large sense, including blood (in any of its intermediary stages of degradation): it is well known that TS includes stains of blood.

(citation from the URL you have provided) "Their analyses found no sign of artificial pigments. “The Shroud image is that of a real human form of a scourged, crucified man. It is not the product of an artist,” the project’s 1981 report declared. “The blood stains are composed of hemoglobin and also give a positive test for serum albumin.” But the report also conceded that no combination of “physical, chemical, biological or medical circumstances” could adequately account for the image. "

(https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/150417-shroud-turin-relics-jesus-catholic-church-religion-science/)

2. A simple explanation on the phenomenon you have described ("The color of the images on the Shroud is due to dehydration of the primary cell wall of linen fibers which allows formation of chromophores, it is a sort of accelerated aging which may be obtained by e.g., a weak acid, but again, acid acts on the whole linen yarn, not on a so thin depth. As a matter of fact, despite countless attempts, to date nobody was able to obtain a 100% Shroud-like coloration.".

It is obvious that coagulated blood generates much more thin stains than normal liquid blood. Can you give a list on references on the studied that have been conducted on the imitation of that type of stains? It would be necessary to verify if they used blood in different stages of coagulation and if they checked the correlation between those stages and the thickness of the stains on such type of linen used also in TS.

3. Regarding the paragraph on carbon-14 dating from the URL reference you have invoked (cited below in extenso). Don't you think that 3 independent measurements made by three distinct prestigious laboratories should be seriously considered as valid? This measurements were cited separately and were all in the given interval of estimated years 1260-1390 (this interval is not an "average" in stricto senso, but a fusion of year sub-intervals given by each measurement in part). It is very unprobable that all these tests to had given an error larger than 1000 years.

Don't you think that new carbon-14 tests are needed before any speculation (concerning a possible connection between Jesus Christ and TS, or a flaw in the past carbon-14 test) is emitted? I don't think that scientific community would oppose to repeat carbon-14 tests: I think that most probably the Vatican would reject a possible future offer to repeat carbon-14 tests.

"In 1988, the Vatican authorized carbon-14 dating of the shroud. Small samples from a corner of its fabric were sent to labs at the University of Oxford’s Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit (RAU), the University of Arizona, and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology. All three found that the shroud material dated to the years between 1260 and 1390, more than a millennium after the life and death of the historical Jesus.

//The labs assessed the reliability of their estimate at 95 percent. To make the case even more convincing, the dates closely coincided with the first documented appearance of the Shroud of Turin in 1353.

//Since their release 27 years ago, the carbon-14 dating results have become the focal point of the shroud controversy, with a stream of critics taking aim at its methodology and conclusions.

//Among the most innovative critiques were those published in 2010 by statisticians Marco Riani, of the University of Parma in Italy, and Anthony Atkinson, of the London School of Economics. In a recent interview with National Geographic, they noted that the laboratories conducting the carbon-14 tests were in full agreement on the ages of control fabrics from an ancient Egyptian mummy, a medieval Nubian tomb, and a medieval French ecclesiastical vestment. Yet raw data from the same tests on the shroud yielded results that differed by more than 150 years.

//The published carbon-14 findings were the mean results drawn from the combined data of the three labs. It was assumed that the data were “homogeneous”—near-identical age estimates based on repeated measurements of the samples, each of which had been divided into four segments for testing.

//But when computers crunched through all 387,072 ways to cut the samples, they identified a marked pattern of variations. “The dating which comes from a piece at the top edge [of an uncut sample] is very different from the date which comes from a piece taken from the bottom edge,” Riani explains.

//“Our research does not prove that the shroud is authentic, nor that it is 2,000 years old,” he cautions. But it does call into question the carbon-14 report’s assertion of “conclusive evidence that the linen of the Shroud of Turin is medieval.”

//The Oxford lab insists that the 1988 conclusions were accurate, and rejects arguments that the test samples were flawed."

My best regards to all (including Mr. Paolo Di Lazzaro)

Dr. Dragoi

Dear All

As an interesting outcome of the chromosome investigation into how the Shroud might have come about I have been looking for nano-antenna based methods for treating deep tissue cancers. I found this paper which discusses a method of early detection with application to breast tumours. The English is sometimes not great but it's a very interesting paper about a new technique that might reduce the risks of high energy methods of imaging using ionizing radiation etc, as well as providing a fast method of detection down to the cellular scale via protein detection.

Article Nanoantenna Based Wireless Communication for Cancer Tumour D...

Dear All and Aparna

It seems a range of technologies is gradually developing for imaging tissues via antennas over the spectrum; in the following case a tomographic technique (build-up of image via cross sections) is used not at nano size but in this developmental case 6 cm wavelength; this article seeks to image breast tumours again for early fast and convenient imaging:

Article Medical Applications of Microwave Imaging

The overall technique of imaging the breast via exogenous microwave antennas arrayed around the breast is similar to the suggested means of producing the Image on the Shroud of Turin by having endogenous nano-antennas all over the body within each chromatid and within each cell of the body where the skin cells are conformal with the shape of the body of TS Man and where the nano-antennas point outwards.

Footnote:

Abstract

Ultrawide band (UWB) microwave imaging is a promising method for the detection of early stage breast cancer, based on the large contrast in electrical parameters between malignant tumour tissue and the surrounding normal breast-tissue. In this paper, the detection and imaging of a malignant tumour are performed through a tomographic based microwave system and signal processing. Simulations of the proposed system are performed and postimage processing is presented. Signal processing involves the extraction of tumour information from background information and then image reconstruction through the confocal method delay-and-sum algorithms. Ultimately, the revision of time-delay and the superposition of more tumour signals are applied to improve accuracy.

Aparna

It seems to demonstrate another problem with 'in vitro' vs 'in vivo' microscopy.

Dear All

A Quantum of Fluence in Medieval Times?

I am intrigued by the science of imaging e.g. cancer tumours and its direct link with the Image of the TS Man on the very thin outer surface of the Shroud indicating that a VUV form of radiation could have been instrumental in mediating the Image via a resonance with the outer layer of the flax (primary cell wall). This appears to be outside of mainstream physics but only in the sense that a VUV signal is not a 'conventional' frequency of image formation (unless we think about eye sight where the nanometre distances are slightly bigger, 200 nm compared with visible wavelengths ~400-800 nm). Notice this 200 nm may be on the edge of a quantum physics so we might not expect a continuous range pf radiation but a very precise discrete (or quantum) level of radiation. Paolo Di Lazarro el at found that using a greater level of fluence than a certain critical level caused ‘ablation’ (melting or evaporation) of the shroud-like linen which we don’t see in the actual Shroud except for areas of burning generally away from the Image and of known provenance.

One main problem of course that has been raised by Andrei-Lucian Dragoi and others is the radiocarbon dating of 1988 which indicate EITHER a medieval dating OR something strange happened at some stage. But this must be answered by HOW the medieval ‘artist’ (for want of a better word) managed NOT to burn or ‘ablate’ the Image at points without being very much aware of how quantum physics works which I doubt very much.

I have raised the possibility that the chromosomes may have been responsible for the quantum physics occurring at around 200 nm, probably within the PCW. The quantum physics demands a nanoscale structure to provide the lack of variation within the fluence where we might see some ablation across the Image unless a nanoscale structure such as the chromosome was responsible for the Image and its lack of ablation

I believe so Aparna; I think that 'chromosome cleaving' as you say is in effect the 'flash' of UV down the chromatids; there's a slow build-up of the electrostatic field across both sides of all the centromeres until we get a coherent 'rupture' of the chemical bonds (centromere-chromatids) all at once. This is like a Stark effect where an electric field causes a change in shape of the orbital of these bonds until the bonds all break.

Notice we need all the chromosomes in the body of TS Man (across the skin at least) to cleave simultaneously to get the necessary energy or fluence (radiated energy per unit area) to create the image (see Di Lazarro et al. 2010, 2012).

It is the inability of medieval 'artists' to know anything about quantum physics that very likely indicates that the Shroud is NOT a medieval artifact but something that possibly occurred at some other time, maybe a part of an overall effect that was in part VUV to cause the Image on the Shroud but later also an even more energetic reaction than VUV, something that was continuing to move upwards in frequency and was able to modify its carbon-14 content.

All techniques known to medieval science were what we now call 'classical techniques' (painting, drawing, singing etc) and would have led to areas of ablation on the Shroud of Turin where a classical method of heating was used. We would see a Gaussian distribution of radiation levels like we see in Planck's Blackbody radiation. But what we must get to obtain the definition and resolution of the Image we observe is a 'quantum effect' where a discrete level of radiation is maintained across the body.

And I think that goes for 'camera obscura' where a macroscopic amount of UV could have been used by the so-called 'artist'; a Gaussian distribution would lead to ablations at random spots on the linen shroud because this is not a quantum dose of light.

Yes Aparna

It's a mixture of determinism in that we see an image like a photograph and, if it's macroscopic in origin, we should see a level of variation; in this case we are causing dehydration and are therefore close to ablation.

Have a look at the following papers on the variation of light:

https://arxiv.org/ftp/quant-ph/papers/0610/0610184.pdf

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:866415/FULLTEXT01.pdf

In this second paper have a look at the variation of solar irradiance over a time interval of seconds within a city scape. "Figure 2.4. Global horizontal irradiance (GHI) with time steps of 1 s for 8 sites within 340 m, on a partly cloudy day in September, 2014 in Uppsala, Sweden. The mean GHI of all sites is presented in bold. From paper III."

Fig 2.4 shows that solar irradiance within cities is a function of space (metres) and time (seconds) and is related to gravitational binding energy between the Sun and the Earth.

Since we don't see anything worse than 'dehydration' (a form of aging, or physical degradation) then we are seeing a quantum effect, not a macroscopic effect!!

We still need to do the experiments and see what they tell us about the variation of light using model 'chromosomes' (nanoantennas) to check if the emitted radiation is able to provide the colour WITHOUT the melting and evaporation. If they can then the Shroud is highly likely to NOT be medieval.