Dear Yuri!

The difference of the information service in the countries and continents has always been. There is another problem.

Contemporary problem is easy access to a variety of information. Formed dependence on computers. Dominated by a sedentary lifestyle. Disappears attraction to hike with a backpack, mountain climbing, other difficulties in life which hardened character. Rare exceptions only confirm the rule law.

Vladimir

I think that general geographic education has two components: a) to be able to read map and to have orientation with it, b) to know basic geographical facts about countries: capitals, distances, natural zones, etc.

With the development of mobile phones many people use navigator for driving and even walking. This program is friendly and does not require thinking (one gets messages like “after 100 meters turn left”), but without it many people are completely lost even in the cities.

Information about locations was traditionally presented in the form of maps. Now some Austrian and German cities have such maps close to train stations that help tourists (those who know geography) a lot. At the same time, there are practically no maps in South European countries (Spain, Italy, Greece). Information at bus stations is often discrete: there is timetable of buses going to different locations, but no map about relative location of them (so that you cannot understand that you can go to another point  which is just walking distance, while buses go with large intervals and this can help).

So we are evolving from continuous perception of space to its discrete version, which is some information loss. Needless to say that economic models today became almost fully spaceless, and if they have space, it is just discrete small set of points contrary to very large number of goods (Krugman’s model in new economic geography).

Dear Yuri,

you've provided a very interesting info about the differences in presenting maps in Northern and Southern Europe. I agree with you about the general trend. It's on the decline in the US also. Discretization of info is a general trend in any science nowadays, which comes with a lot of new info to process from Internet.

Dear Yuri!

The difference of the information service in the countries and continents has always been. There is another problem.

Contemporary problem is easy access to a variety of information. Formed dependence on computers. Dominated by a sedentary lifestyle. Disappears attraction to hike with a backpack, mountain climbing, other difficulties in life which hardened character. Rare exceptions only confirm the rule law.

Vladimir

As a planetary scientist, I can tell you that nonetheless mapping became very important for extraterrestrial bodies. For example, for Martian and Lunar landers.

Why is it important to memorize all these geographic places when everything is accessible via internet or dictionaries? E.g. places might be learnt during daily life when needed (e.g. where do sports events take place?)

Perhaps a more useful approach might be to learn how to solve problems via geography or to understand the underlying mechanisms involving geography? E.g. Why are big cities build at place X and not at place Y, for instance? Do big cities have characteristics in common to determine their geographic location.... etc. (e.g. the presence of a river might be crucial)

'Geography' equals 'Biogeography'?

For the motivated people:

What is the minimal spatial surface required to start to talk about Geography (e.g. Micro-geography versus Macro-geography)?

Perhaps. People can memorize many things besides places.

I prefer studies of mechanisms causing more or less geographic variation: E.g. geographic variation in art. Is the geographic variation of nose shapes of stone statures across cathedrals found at different places determined by constraints (people are not able to make any nose shape in stone) or aesthetics (the most aesthetic nose shapes are used in cathedrals)?

This was just to stimulate discussion. Geography can be mixed up with any other education/research field (including tourism/economy/biology/geology/art/culture....), perhaps to give it an extra (more exciting) dimension?

Thus, not simply describing patterns, but also to explain them???

Importance of geography

Dear Talib,

I would be inclined to think that 'Geography' could also be replaced by 'Physics', 'Chemistry', 'Biology'....  , or not?

I am grateful for so quick responses. Thanks to everybody. It seems that many people would like to understand this topic in a broader sense. Cecilia wants to talk about cultural geography - no problem. I see no problem if we still bear in mind initial question. I was concerned with decline of knowledge and reasons for that. Marcel sets a correct dimension – what about other sciences. I agree that in some of them (maybe math?) there is also some decline. Technical development gives us a chance to do less calculation by hand, to have less orientation, etc, so we use those skills less frequently. But imagine some great computer crash of global size. I think that we should be taught how to survive without computer – to orient in space, to do basic calculations.

Natalia informs us about decline of geographical knowledge in US schools, but not in US science. Well, in geophysics and physics of other planets we cannot survive without geography.

We are investigating demand side shock. But what about supply side? It also may come via finance, opening new positions - and geography seems to be in disadvantage now. Why?

Roland, are you talking only about your country (for Eastern Europe and FSU it is true) or globally? What are your explanations?

Vladimir and Cecilia, how can you explain cross-country difference? By culture only? Or maybe public policy? I found empirically that in some countries people want to over-extract touristic rent: in Rome airport there were no free city maps, contrary to Vienna. But here I am more concerned about cross-country comparison of geographical ignorance.

The human population doubled during the last 60 years, and the advanced techniques (e.g. more powerful computers) helped to obtain/produce more knowledge. All this implies that the human-produced knowledge more than doubled during the last 60 years without changing the basic biology of the individual brain that has to handle all this.

It therefore makes no sense to memorize the thousands of examples that might illustrate basic principles given that the basic principles underlying human-made knowledge did not change much during the last 60 years?

By the way, I encounter many 'new' places during lucid dreams. Is this Mental Geography or Spiritual Geography?

Marcel, you are right that our brain has limited space, and maybe we need to know less basic facts since we have Wikipedia and other sources. But reading maps is a skill similar to knowing some language, and it comes at much lower cost (my opinion). As for traveling in dreams to unknown places - I also have this experience.

Cecilia, you confirm the general decline of geographical public awareness in the USA and the fact that it is kept only for a range of professions. Does it mean that geography becomes an elite knowledge?

I think one should memorize general geographic features of the world because some times he/she needs this knowledge instantaneously, e.g. while reading history books, watching movies, listing to world news,.......

Dear Talib, I agree that we need some minimal fact knowledge. Without that one cannot even formulate the search string in google. Geography gives better understanding where the action takes place. Some authors are very good in geography, but other make rude mistakes, so it depends. In your example basic historical knowledge is also useful.... But it is also true that we are overfilled with information flow today. It would be an excuse if we would know more important facts than people 50 years ago. Probably we do not. Most of the facts in mass media are about the life of important persons today, who have little chance to be in history 100 years after. Also public scandals, criminal events, disasters - all at local level.

I think that it is more important to understand how the world in functioning at macro level, and here geographical knowledge is very important. For example, to understand geopolitics, the probability of natural hazards in certain areas, etc.

At more practical level, geography is very important for traveling. Especially when one plans the route and chooses the locations where more places of interest can be seen. In this case I usually start from public maps of different types - with places of interest in cities and countryside, roads, train and bus connections. Without map one cannot even have an idea of what is feasible in 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, and how to optimize. Usually tourist agencies want to takeover this from us - for a certain fee. But in few cases their packages have the goal to maximize client's utility and to minimize the cost.

I agree with you that now-a-days average educated people know less about fundamentals of Geography and geographical phenomenon than it was known to average educated people a decade ago. But we know more than what was known to us a century before. Now-a-days in the age of internet the availability of geographical knowledge has increased tremendously, so as the scope for learning. 

For me Geography equals to Knowledge about everything located and evolving through time and space. Geography can be related to any field with its sub-branches ...Climatology, Geomorphology, Biogeography, Geo-hydrology, Oceanography, Population & settlement Geography, Economic Geography, Cartography, Remote Sensing, GIS, Political Geography, Industrial Geography, Cultural Geography, Mathametical Geography, Regional Geography etc. Broadly Geography looks through physical dimension and human dimension of peoples and earth. 

As others rightly mentioned mapping and interpretation of earth surface features and spatial process are the integral part of learning Geography. The knowledge about geography is must for any person.

Dear Sumanta, I fully agree with your statement. But you are a professional. All people in the listed fields are obliged to have some geographical understanding, because it is essential for the work.

The problem is that today ordinary people got less geographical education in school than before and are often unable to use geography in real life. I mean reading real maps rather than listening to instructions of a navigator.

Public information today (train timetable and stops, distance to cities, etc) often comes in a discrete manner. Before one used to count distance using map and special device that counts distance along a curve (road). People do not elaborate continuous thinking (what is near what, in all scales). I am asking another question about philosophy of discrete versus continuous today; your opinion is welcome.