Dear Alfredo! You begin your logical reasoning with a reference to research of Eric Kandel. You can give the names of other brilliant Scientists. But practice shows how far we are from understanding the motivations. A classic example is the US election, when all the calculations to motivate professionals failed. Therefore rights once again the great Goethe's poem Faust: Grau, teurer Freund, ist alle Theorie Unci gain des Lebens goldner Baum ".

Dear Alfredo! You begin your logical reasoning with a reference to research of Eric Kandel. You can give the names of other brilliant Scientists. But practice shows how far we are from understanding the motivations. A classic example is the US election, when all the calculations to motivate professionals failed. Therefore rights once again the great Goethe's poem Faust: Grau, teurer Freund, ist alle Theorie Unci gain des Lebens goldner Baum ".

Dear Vladimir:

Many thanks for the comment! Kandel's idea may be the starting point for the understanding of brain mechanisms of motivation. However, from this understanding to the understanding of human political behavior there is a lot of terrain to be covered by scientific research. In the history of each individual the four main modulators (Dopamine, Serotonine, Noradrenaline and Acetylcholine) are liklely to be associated to different ways of feeling and different kinds of stimuli. While the political establishment was accostumeted to motivate the citizens to vote in the "politically correct" candidates and proposals, Trump found that "lower" messages could be more effective to motivate some parts of the population. This is for sure a matter of motivation! However, I doubt if there is any neurobiological difference between the brains of those who voted in Clinton and Trump. They probably have the same modulators, in similar concentrations, in the same brain regions, but the kind of stimuli they are associated with is not the same. It is a matter of personal and social class histories.

Dear Alfredo! You're right. Emotions were formed during evolution to protect against the risk or, conversely, to seek pleasure. The polarity of society emotions sometimes wrong. Only the mind allows a person to distinguish the false pleasures and the real danger of hypocrisy, corruption, deceit, debauchery ... By the way, the emotional component of domestic animals often causes them to make mistakes when choosing a trustful behavior in society. We must remember this always.

Dear Colleagues,

Good Day,

Here is a very interesting abstract for the paper entitled:

"Emotion, motivation, and anxiety: brain mechanisms and psychophysiology.

Lang PJ1, Bradley MM, Cuthbert BN, , published in "Biol Psychiatry. 1998 Dec 15;44(12):1248-63."

Abstract

The organization of response systems in emotion is founded on two basic motive systems, appetitive and defensive. The subcortical and deep cortical structures that determine primary motivated behavior are similar across mammalian species. Animal research has illuminated these neural systems and defined their reflex outputs. Although motivated behavior is more complex and varied in humans, the simpler underlying response patterns persist in affective expression. These basic phenomena are elucidated here in the context of affective perception. Thus, the research examines human beings watching uniquely human stimuli--primarily picture media (but also words and sounds) that prompt emotional arousal--showing how the underlying motivational structure is apparent in the organization of visceral and behavioral responses, in the priming of simple reflexes, and in the reentrant processing of these symbolic representations in the sensory cortex. Implications of the work for understanding pathological emotional states are discussed, emphasizing research on psychopathy and the anxiety disorders."....

Please, see the link....

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9861468

Much work owes credit to the classic work of Olds and Milner carried out in the 1950s-1960s @ McGill on reward circuitry.

Here are some recent examples:

Article Rat Nucleus Accumbens Core Astrocytes Modulate Reward and Th...

Article Activation of D1 and D2-expressing neurons in the nucleus ac...

More papers....all are based on work of Olds and Milner at McGill in the 1950s-1960s!

Article Brain-stimulation reward: A review.

Chapter Electrophysiological Correlates of Positive Reinforcement: P...

People often conceive of dopaminergic systems as 'reward systems'. Presumably astroglia and calcium ions are involved in their functioning as much as in other aspects of the dynamics of 'mind'. But of course why a reward should FEEL like a reward is still a mystery.  Neurons, calcium ions, astroglia, are all part of the story and maybe one day we'll get to understand their roles.

Agree 100% with Chris Nunn!

Dear Lewis and Chris:

Lewis, many thanks for the references. 

Please take a look at the calcium ion video at the link below (video number 8). The animal is not moving much. The calcium wave appears and disappears (see also the other link - video number 1) without a clear behavioral correlate. It seems to reflect the internal dynamics of feelings ("covert behavior") and the motivation of the animal to execute an action.

I talked personally to three of the authors of the Ding et al. paper I cited in the question discussion. They used thirty two-photon microscopes with camera for optical imaging of mice (with a small window on the skull) and tried to find correspondences between sensory stimulation and calcium wave responses, as researchers have done for single neurons for some decades. They also searched for in vivo responses to transmitters/modulators directly injected in the tissue. The attempt to replicate the neuronal paradigm was disappointing, because calcium waves do not seem to be responses to sensory stimulation, and the only transmitter that elicited robust responses in vivo was noradrenaline (this finding is very important in my opinion, because it could directly relate NA activation of the astroglial network with motivation; however, when I collaborated with one of the co-authors of that paper - see the last linked paper - he was cautious about this hypothesis).

Lewis' excellent references (thank you very much!) indicate that astroglial responses may be related to emotional feelings and motivation. I wish that astroglia researchers using advanced technology will search for correspondences between calcium waves and types of emotional feelings!

http://www.nature.com/nprot/journal/v11/n3/fig_tab/nprot.2016.021_SV8.html

http://www.nature.com/nprot/journal/v11/n3/fig_tab/nprot.2016.021_SV1.html

The need for change is a great motivator. I have a saying, "Time is an emergent property of change...and change is built into the equation". The people that voted "differently" than the powers that be wanted, were not voting for Trump, they were voting for change. I followed both sides very carefully and I believe that this is the case. The urge for change is very strong. If we look at nature, we see that it is always changing. Evolution is proof that change is "built into the equation". When things (like politics) becomes stagnant, the urge for change becomes very strong. This is what happened in the US elections. The pendulum must swing to the other side, no matter how improbable is seems. 

Dear Alfredo,

These are wonderful techniques. As you know, my own theory? belief? is that there is a spatial and temporal fractal hierarchy of calcium 'waves' underpinning the dynamics of mind. Larger temporal and spatial scales in this supposed hierarchy are supported by astrocytes and the largest spatial scales by EEG fields. The visualisations you refer to would seem to relate to intermediate scales in the hierarchy and thus, as you say, to intermediate-level  'mental' features like motivations, affordances, etc., rather than to more basic features such as specific sensations. This may fit with the observation about noradrenaline since one of its functions is to increase general 'alertness'.

However I'd see this as relating only to the content of phenomenality, not to phenomenality per se.

all best

Chris

Dear Alfredo, Schultz (1999) results on Dopamine's role on the expectation of reward seems to me important on motivation. Do we need much more than Hebbian learning to explain different assemblies of neurons working together?! I know this is just a sketchy thinking, but I believe Dopamine has an important role in "tagging" relevant patterns of electrophysiological activity that should motivate behaviour on a second exposure to previous reinforced behaviour. Could that be another starting point?! 

Dear Felipe,

Hebbian learning explains why some connections are strengthened, but does not explain the relevance of the learned patterns for the person or animal. What determines the preferences of an animal in the context where stimuli is presented? What determines some patterns to enter long-term memory and others not? These were the issues Kandel attempted to explain.

Motivation is not a behavioral (motor) phenomenon, but an "internal" (covert) issue that can be imaged with the use of sophisticated technology. If the Bull et al. and related findings are correct, then the physiological correlate of motivation is the inter-cellular calcium wave that modulates neuronal plasticity, determining the kind of behavior the animal displays in the context of stimulus presentation and also which patterns will be stored by the Hebbian assemblies.

How the calcium wave is influenced by dopamine release and how dopamine release is influenced by the calcium wave is a hot topic for experimental investigation. One important aspect of their interaction is that dppamine release is local (at the reward system), while calcium waves can be global. Probably the reward system triggers a large calcium wave that modulates several neural systems to coordinate adaptive behavior and to select what is learned and what will be memorized. In the same way, in the presence of dangerous stimuli, the amygdala triggers a large calcium wave that instantiates the feeling of fear and modulates the resulting behavior and plasticity events that follow (for instance, remembering harmful stimuli).

Dear Chris,

You wrote:

"I'd see this as relating only to the content of phenomenality, not to phenomenality per se"

This is the good old Hard Problem showing its tentacles again...

I have been thinking about the status of the calcium wave for 10 years, as you know. Today I call it the "hydro ionic wave guided by proteins", to be more exact.

In my attempts to model consciousness, as well as in the modeling of Dr. Berhnard Mitterauer, we assume that consious activity is a dialogue between a subjective "I" and an objective "other" (the "other is a intentional representation of things and processes, not the things or processes themselves).

In the models, the astrocyte network takes the place of the "subjective" side of consciousness, while the representations instantiated in the neuronal network (by means of frequency and phase-coded spike trains in Hebbian assemblies) takes the place of the "objective" side.

It is as if inside our brains we had an astroglial "I" or "spectator" looking at a neuronal "screen" and perceiving the neuronal representations elicited by the stimuli external to the brain. Then the astroglial "I" modulates neuronal activity, influencing behavior and also "projecting" (as Max Velmans uses the term) the contents to the places (outside the brain) where the distal stimulus is located (for instance, pain in a lesioned finger is instantiated as a pain-wave in the brain that is projected to the place of the lesion at the finger).

The projection makes use of motor and premotor pyramidal neurons acting on neuromuscular joints - these projections may be active even if there is no actual movement (for instance, a child watching a soccer game at TV learns how to shoot the ball with a special effect, and then goes to the backyard and actually shoots the ball like the player at the TV did...).

The wave possibly has a quantum-field-theoretical aspect (phonons/solitons) that help to encode the quale of each experience. The redness of red objects would somehow depend on the spatiotemporal pattern of the amplitude-modulated wave, generating the right phonons/solitons for redness.... This part of the hypothesis is more speculative and maybe closer to your approach to the Hard Problem.

Anyway, what I would like to stress is that the redness of red objects is proposed to be related to nested fractal dynamic patterns in the wave. Therefore, if I am not wrong, the wave that you can see in the videos I posted the link is one aspect of the phenomenal experience of the rat/mouse. The other aspect is available only to the rat/mouse herself (for her first-person perspective).

Dear Alfredo, I just was writing about Kandel for another question, then I saw your picture and question and the first word I read was Eric Kandel.

I'm reading for the moment his book  ‘The Age of Insight' in which he turns to art as his special motivation after he was honored with the Nobel Prize in 2000.

We must not forget that he always stressed in his writings, the reductionism of science..

And all the time I read about the oscillation of the  Ca ion in the cell, I think at you, because indeed the ca2+ is very important, also for learning.

If we imagine that the unconscious cell, is so intelligent in learning, we must admit that our consciousness is just a little molecule compared with the unconscious working of the cell.

At the conscious level we cannot understand it. As Kandel turned to the artists of Vienna in 1900, we also must turn to the artists for understanding the motivation of the brain.

Alfredo,

You might take a look at "Set Point and Motive: The Formation and Resolution of Goals" on my RG page.

Dear Arnold,

Please report the neurobiological mechanism for our discussion. Thank you!

Dear Rita:

Many thnks for thinking of me when you hear about Ca2+ signaling! It means that my efforts here in RG have not completely failed.

I surely agree that the unconscious mechanisms of the mind are more complex than the conscious ones, and are also a necessary basis for conscious activity to exist. Also I agree that the arts can contribute very much to neuroscience; the brain uses languages (systems of signals) that the artists comprehend and use in their works.

I am convinced that the calcium wave has a amplitude-modulated spatio temporal structure that resembles the structure of music! Like the Chladni patterns formed by sand on a vibrating plate resonating to musical tones, each spatiotemporal AM pattern of the calcium wave may correspond to a feeling!

Kandel is a reductionist who also comprehends the big picture well and has the talent to communicate it in his books, papers and talks. This is a rare combination of capacities in an experimental scientist; maybe the main reason of his success. We need more Kandels to put the pieces of the puzzle together and better understand the relations between cognitive and affective activities at several spatiotemporal scales!

I'm a bit puzzled by the term motivation

When I am motivated it is usually for some observable purpose. I'm motivated to run when a hungry tiger is aproaching

Are you suggesting the chemical processes generate my motivation or are these part of the response to a perceived situation? Or perhaps a response to the build up of other body signals like hunger?

Alfredo: "Please report the neurobiological mechanism for our discussion. Thank you!"

There are several key brain mechanisms involved in motivation. These are detailed in my chapter in The Cognitive Brain (1991) linked below. After you read this chapter we can discuss the mechanisms in detail.

Chapter Set Point and Motive: The Formation and Resolution of Goals

Self-reward circuitry is only one part, but an important part, of motivation.

attached find an article by Elliott Gardner of NIDA, formerly Professor at AECOM, who received his BA at Harvard and his PhD at McGill where he learned from Olds and Milner.

Article Addiction and Brain Reward and Antireward Pathways

Dear Alfredo,

Referring back to your '57.40' posting (sorry for delay but UK/Brazil time difference got in the way), I very much like your 'hydro-ionic' model, though I'd still prefer to think that the apparent importance of astrocytes to 'higher level' mental functions (such as 'I-ness') is attributable to scaling rather than to a separation of functions.

Whichever view one takes, there would indeed seem to be a need for something more to account for the phenomenality of these goings-on. The calcium waves may be a correlate of the mouse's conscious experience but they are surely no more than a representation, not the thing itself (unless you go for eliminative materialism).

Your 'quantum field' suggestion is certainly one approach to conceiving of the 'something extra'; 'quantum consciousness' theories are indeed popular in some circles. My current favourite candidate for the 'something extra' is a bit different and involves relating temporality to 'subjectvity'. I like it especially because it implies the rather dramatic prediction that mind-related violations of energy conservation should occasionally occur, and it is therefore both refutable and distinguishable from 'quantum consciousness' proposals.

It's not only politics that are producing interesting times!

best wishes

Chris

Dear Wolfgang, you wrote:

"I'm a bit puzzled by the term motivation. When I am motivated it is usually for some observable purpose. I'm motivated to run when a hungry tiger is aproaching. Are you suggesting the chemical processes generate my motivation or are these part of the response to a perceived situation?""

Alfredo - The tiger is the stimulus. To run is a possible response. The motivation is the conscious mental state that drives the choice of the response. For instance, the motivation for you to rum may be that you feel fear. The feeling of fear, beyond a threshold, recruits the neuronal motor assembly needed to trigger the behavior, and possibly also facilitates the formation of long-term memory about the event..

Dear Arnold,

Although I read you book around 20 years ago, I am too busy now to reread the chapter.

Alfredo,

The chapter that I linked above, in my view, is the only source giving structural and dynamic details of neuronal mechanisms that are essential for motivated behavior.

Alfredo,

motivation is basically a psychological expression.

Motivation initially seems to describe a purposeful drive which satisfies a pressing need. Here we can find emotions which trigger the reactions.

Cognitive motivation is not so simple, as it is presumed that values are the foundation that has been learned or chosen by the individual himself.

The first kind of motivation is much simpler than the second one and therefore I think you can find simple neuronal pathways of them. 

The connections in the neuronal networ of the cognitive motivation you will not find because it is individual different and depends on subjective synaptic connections in the brain. This kind of motivation is also accompanied with (weak) emotions.

Alfredo

Alfredo - The tiger is the stimulus. To run is a possible response. The motivation is the conscious mental state that drives the choice of the response. For instance, the motivation for you to rum may be that you feel fear. The feeling of fear, beyond a threshold, recruits the neuronal motor assembly needed to trigger the behavior, and possibly also facilitates the formation of long-term memory about the event..

I understand this phenomenological motivation however in your 57.40 comment you talk about synapses and brain chemistry: How do you link the two?

I've attached some papers I published a few years ago on avolition (the lack of motivation / will / spontaneous activity) which implement the anterior cingulate gyrus and putamen. A different perspective to those taken by the other answers, but hopefully of interest and use.

Dear Tom,

Your papers are about schizophrenia, but I would like to make a question about avolition in depression; if you have a suggestion, please share with us: Is there a double dissociation of the neural correlates of avolition and the correlates of the feeling of sadness in major depression? In other words, if e.g. modafinil is used by a person in major depression, could it help to increase motivation for everyday activities, without reducing the feeling of sadness? Or does the feeling always go together with the lack of motivation?

Dear Wolfgang,

You made the million dollars question: "I understand this phenomenological motivation however ... you talk about synapses and brain chemistry: How do you link the two?".

Alfredo: This is exactly the issue that the neuro-astroglial model addresses. In models like Kandel´s and Arnold´s, there are only neural networks that represent stimuli and evolve to a homeostatic (stable) state, but there is no substrate to embody the feelings that (we phenomenologically know to) modulate our responses!

The calcium wave model (Pereira Jr. et al., see the Frontiers paper linked above) or the hydro-ionic model (as I call it today) adds to the neural network model a higer-level layer of information processing and support for conscious mental functions, the astroglial network. This network is activated by neurons, and feed back on them. Its main physiological activity is the calcium (or hydro-ionic) wave.

Neural networks in the brain processes signals from the stimuli in a cognitive fashion (this processing includes associative learning, attention, short-term memories, etc.). On the basis of the results of the cognitive processing, local calcium waves are induced at the astrocytes close to the neurons. These small waves interfere constructively or destructively (with the help of neural synchrony) and generate a global wave that corresponds to the feeling (more precisely, the spatiotemporal amplitude modulated pattern that is formed in a 2-seconds window, containing phonons/solitons, corresponds to the feeling of one conscious episode).

The feeling may be good, bad or neutral. Depending on the valence of the feeling, the wave modulates back neuron activity, reinforcing or depressing it; determining properties of spike trains that control muscles and glands, and the selection of information to be consolidated in long-term-memory.  

There are several pathways for the wave to control neuronal activity, as reviewed in the paper below (section 4, 9, 10 and 11) and also shown in the picture that you can find in the powerpoint below (please look at the figure "The Cationic Wave in the Hydro-Proteic Tissue Avenue"; it is the best picture of the whole system that I was able to draw using Mr. Gates' PP tool).

Presentation The Complex Dynamics of Cations with Water and Proteins in N...

Article Astrocytes and Human Cognition: Modeling information integra...

Last night, I was driving my car and suddenly, a car pulled out in front of me. I had a sudden urge to slam on my breaks, honk my horn, curse and show my middle finger. Sudden change is a great motivator.

When physics is defined in terms of change, the logic is much simpler.

Inertia: resistance to change.

Time: an emergent property of change.

Entropy: change cannot be undone.

Life: continuous change.

Motivation: desire for change and/or reaction to change.

See what I mean? We (humans) are seriously over complicating what is actually quite simple.

Realism: change exists.

Existentialism: the will to manifest change.

Evolution: change is built into the equation, ie. "things" must always change.

Suffering: the inability to accept change.

Dear Lori:

There are many "forces" behind motivation. In physics, you have only four. In psychology, the structuralists of Wundt's school at the end of the XIXth century identified more than one thousand different sensations/feelings that could count as motivational forces. Therefore, the brain mechanisms of motivation should be able to generate more than one thousand different patterns. 

Ok, so Alfredo is  presuming that all functions have a chemical basis, Vladmir that motivation is a communal past-time...as in corrupt media and politicians corrupting civilians...Lori that we are too focussed on chemicals rather than looking at events and connecting them to outcomes. My first question is what of the person who undergoes incurable neurosis in his/her 30's brought about by pain experienced in early foetal life? Can that person's outcome be explained by any of the foregoing?

Next comes the buffer zone....people who hold to a religious belief in which motivation and temptation undergo flux?...what is a psychotic?....what is a sociopath?..Do you think sociopaths and psychopaths are not well represented in the 'academic' community?. What about the motivation to do 'right' or to do 'wrong' or even to find a new position which takes judgement from either or neither?. In my view personality outcomes  represented such as Hannibal Lector and numerous other people who seem to be brutes or devoid of empathy is because they only begin to feel pleasure or self disgust or self empowerment at the point at which most of us (pre the new world order desensitisation commencing in the 1970's) are in horror at the abominations.. .e.g. the tolerating, even rapturous support  of 67 years of abuse torture and genocide in Palestine. What is going on chemically as well as spiritually that indoctrination can set a platform of 'who cares'...is that a lack of chemical, a crazy mix?. a spiritual decline or a feeling of empowerment in 'tacit' or serious agreement. What is 'sitting on the fence?

In the case of Trump of all the appalling choices put up by the world controllers of both new and old orders...now united...Trump reflected the widespread dissatisfaction of Americans. His win would have been even more resounding had his statements about women not been publicised and even there I think many reacted adversely to his being recorded and the recording held over until the most damaging time. Trump said very little about Clinton's lifetime of allegations of impropriety. He's now faced with Lori's real-life situations.

Far from being 'lower messages' Trumps represented the higher order which people are vilified for expressing...serious objection to multicultural machination and the killing off of traditions which have defined the nature of the Nation...Trump has taken a position from which change can be effected and stay supported even if moderated.

Perhaps one concern for me with motivations and chemicals is the machinations which come from it. A good example is the CIA introduction of LSD (and MK Ultra and Delta) and how it was used in experiments and assassinations. Can one really find 'uniquely'  what Alfredo is seeking when communities are in various stages of fear, anxiety uncertainty depression and anger. I don't know...but I do know that motivation in my case isn't only a result of good feelings or seeking them....motivation for good is commonly associated with suffering, even death.

It's probably obvious I regard philosophy as a critical intervention in most actions and the 'good' or 'bad' outcomes even when the 'best' of intentions are the driver.

Dear Anthony, you make too many questions...

I will only answer that motivation is not "only a result of good feeling", but obviously also avoiding suffering. 

Alfredo...ok so ask to many questions? mea culpa.....it's my search you see...My son calls me the man who has to know everything!!...Re your reply ...Would that apply to Christian Martyrs who were terrified of the coming treatment but felt an obligation to hold a certain positon of 'virtue'?

Dear Anthony,

Yes it applies to all human experiences. Sometimes there is a conflict between looking for the good and avoiding the bad. Aristotle called "magnanimity" the capacity of struggling with the bad in order to achieve a greater good (see wiki link below).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnanimity

Dear Colleagues,

Good Day,

Please, see....

Dear Hazim:

This is a good picture of the chain of events that determine motivation. However, it does not display the mechanisms. For instance, in the hypothalamus, what are the mechanisms that determine hunger? Neuropeptide Y is involved? How is this neuropeptide produced and released? By astrocytes and/or neurons? What is the pattern of activity that triggers the production and release?

Alfredo,

The thread’s question seems as rather uncertain. The term “motivation” seems as doesn’t relate to “what chemistry “motivate” the brain” completely; including – seems as worthwhile to define what is “brain motivation” itself at all.

Brain is practically material system of neurons, hormonal structures/systems, etc. that mostly work automatically, in accordance with rigorous algorithms that are rigorously, i.e. “materially” written in the brain structure, principally in this case brain doesn’t differ from a steam locomotive, where details work in accordance with algorithms that are written in the locomotive construction. The term “motivation” seems as not too relevant to such processes.

Next level  - instinctive “motivation” , when, say, the brain acts if a human takes something rather hot, etc. – again, here some internal materially written algorithms “motivate”  some brain[‘s sections] to work.

Seems for the thread’s question utmost relevant is the case when the brain works “consciously”, i.e. when the “motivations” above  are negligible. In this case the brain is working be governed by “consciousness”. But the consciousness is principally non-material system that uses the brain practically as a “hard disk” at thinking and some automaton that transforms “non-material” signals of the non-material consciousness into material pulses in neurons governing so the body.

What are those consciousness’ signals – all what that is  known now is that they are non-material,  but can, nonetheless, force some, at least the brain’s, material structures to make concrete determinate actions.

Cheers

Let us not forget Pavlov's contributions.

Chapter Protective Inhibition of Self-Regulation and Motivation: Ext...

It seems is worthwhile to repeat here that the [human’s here] consciousness is non-material system/ self-aware program; when the nervous system is practically purely material net that is governed by mostly material signals. At that on this stage of her development the consciousness seems rather probably works as classical computer and consists of a “power supply” – the body, a “hard disk” – the brain [long term memory], “processor”, and “random access memory” [short term memory]. At that the two last are essentially non-material modules.

When somebody studies the consciousness by studying only nervous system (Pavlov, for example) that is some analogue of a situation when somebody studies a black box, which is usual computer; having at that no access to main modules that govern the rest in the computer, moreover studies the box even without any suggestion that these modules exist at all, i.e.    to the processor and RAM  modules – what rather probably can result only in  a model of the studied box that will be rather far away from a computer…

More – see SS post   on 4-th page.

Cheers

Dear Sergey:

It seems we assume a very different ontology. For instance, in my view when we act consciously, the conscious influence on behavior is based on motivational factors. You argue for the contrary view - that when we act consciously we are not motivated.

Another problem is that you conceive the brain as a classical physio-chemical system, while I consider that the living brain (and body) have three related aspects, the physical, the informational and the conscious ones (see the paper below).

Therefore, I don't know how to discuss with you, because we depart from different ontologies.

Maybe a good starting question would be to ask if the "non-material" signals that you mention are not physical at all. If they are forms of energy, then they can operate on the material brain. If they are not physical (or chemical, or biological), then you fall in the classical deadend of Cartesian dualism. You would need a pineal gland or a similar system that operates both at the physical and non-physical levels of reality to connect them.

In my ontology (Triple-Aspect Monism) there is a fundamental reality made of "forms of energy". The first manifestation of these forms is the material aspect of reality. The second one is the informational aspect, and the third one is the conscious one, which appears when systems feel the message carried by the information they process.

In this framework, the feelings we have motivate our actions and are also the basis of conscious activity. Without them, our brain information processing would be unconscious, and our actions would not be based on motives (they would be determined by mechanical or chemical causes).

Article Triple-aspect monism: Physiological, mental unconscious and ...

If you are in the danger zone...Motivation and adrenaline...

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2015/03/01/5-steps-to-increase-motivation/

Dear Irina,

The article makes interesting notes on adrenaline, which, together with endorphins, serotonin and dopamine, are among the main factors of motivation.

What are the mechanisms activated by these modulators and peptides? This is the question! How is the opposition of adrenaline and noradrenaline(norepinephrine) influencing our conscious behavior?

Mind correlates with our brain which can not be measured either with any technique or scientific experiment . Our mind has as a energy force with our inner urge with divinity within us .

Inner energy & divinity differ from individual to individual an it is in this line we find human beings every where in the world are different either by carrying their activities in a positive mode fruitful to the member of his family & also to the society . It is this inspiring human beings to road the pathway of motivation .

Quite good human beings in the world have a reflection of the energy in the negative line thru which we experience our society in a unhealthy environment creating the members of the society in an unhealthy environment thereby losing their mental disturbance & peacefully living . 

It is at this stage i take liberty to submit my publication under the captioned'' Brain Power'' for your perusal & our valued readers .

Dear Alfredo,

“…You argue for the contrary view - that when we act consciously we are not motivated….”

? I never stated such things, of course. The problem is in the question “what is the motivation?”

“…Maybe a good starting question would be to ask if the "non-material" signals that you mention are not physical at all. If they are forms of energy, then they can operate on the material brain…”

The understanding of the difference “material/non-material” is possible only in the “The Information as Absolute” conception, where these phenomena are clearly differentiated – see the link.

At that both – Matter [every material object] and every consciousness are dynamical, i.e. uninterruptedly changing, systems. Because of the fundamental self-inconsistence of the notion/phenomenon “Change”  to change something is fundamentally necessary to spend some fundamental essence – “energy”; which seems, [as, say, the Rules/Possibilities “Space” and “Time”] is a member of the set of fundamental Rules/Possibilities [“Logos” in the conception] that make something “totally uncertain” into some certain, i.e. into some information; and

So the energy indeed must be spent at the consciousness operation, but, in contrast to the energies exchange   in material systems, just because of that consciousness is non-material, “equal” portion of energy that are necessary to change some information in consciousness can have quite different results – for example the new consciousness’s state can be trivial or very non-trivial thoughts.

Thus, for example, it seems as rather probable that there is no “a fundamental reality made of "forms of energy"” – again, there can be only different “forms of organizations” of informational systems, including, for example when systems’ forms of organization differs – is a system self-aware or not; etc.

More – see SS’s  posts above and the links in the posts

Cheers

Dear Alfredo,

In response to your question, modafinil is not licensed for the treatment of depression and would be unlikely to be effective in the longer term. Short term you'd get  a boost and feel less fatigue, which may be temporarily perceived as reduced sadness. However, you're not depressed because you're tired (c.f. lacking motivation), you're tired because you're depressed. The neural correlates of depression are however frequently reported to include the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC).

Dear Sergey:

I list our disagreements below. For me:

1) Information is not absolute. It depends on the most fundamental category: energy. Only energy is absolute - as implied by the First Law of Thermodynamics. The organization of energy, or the combination of different energy forms, generate information. Information requires a material substrate to act on (as in Aristotle´s hylomorphism). Therefore, systemic information processing requires the combination of energy forms in material systems;

2) Motivation is not an informational, neither a purely chemical issue. In Triple-Aspect Monism, motivation has three aspects: a) The energy/matter substrate (electrochemical); b) The informational patterns being processed in the system; c) The feelings instantiated in the system (by means of the action of the information on the material body). You seem to agree on the necessity of energy in motivational processes, however you seem to discard the need of a material body for the information to act on. 

Dear Tom:

I am in agreement. Your response is in accord with my expectations.

The view that consciously motivated activity is based on feelings was anticipated by James Mark Baldwin, when he wrote: 

“The main function of consciousness is to enable...to learn things which natural heredity fails to transmit…The principle of Habit must be recognized in some general way which will allow the organism to do new things without utterly undoing what it has already acquired” (Baldwin, 1896, p. 302).

"Stimulations of the environment can produce new adaptive movements…from

movement variations… How do these movement variations come to be produced

when and where they are needed?...How does the organism keep those

movements going which are thus selected, and suppress those which are not

selected ? (Baldwin, 1896, p. 303).

The function of pleasure and pain is just to keep some actions or movements

going and to suppress others...Actions which secure pleasurable conditions to

the organism are determined by the pleasure to be repeated, and so to secure the

continuance of the pleasurable conditions; and actions which get the organism

into pain are by the very fact of pain suppressed…(The living system)

distinguishes in its very form and amount between stimulations which are vitally

good and those which are vitally bad...The term 'circular' is used to emphasize

the way such a reaction tends to keep itself going, over and over, by reproducing

the conditions of its own stimulation (Baldwin, 1896, p. 303-4).

Reference: 

BALDWIN, J.M. (1896) Consciousness and Evolution. Psychological Review 3(3), 300-309.

Dear Lewis:

Protective inhibition may explain why Trump voters did not declare their intentions in the polls...

So..Vladimir and Alfredo....we are deviating.....for a little light relief.....

Polls are cunningly contrived marketing devices and are not anywhere near what one might call 'representative'. We are exposed to the fashionable 'everyone in Australia'...the world...only homophobes don't....only those filled with hatred...and such reprehensible humbug propaganda 24/7. I have no idea whether Trump supporters were or were not 'polled' however they were prepared to fight and they got their man to the Weishaupt, that symbolic architecture  of arcane sects and guardian  of an era begun in flight from the Inquisition, contrived into a master plan by Mayer Amschell Bauer based on indebtedness. Trump promises to be interesting...I wonder whether Trump will attend the next  Bilderberger conference or treat it with disdain as he is the TPT.

The great triumph was that his supporters, as with Hansen supporters in Australia ...with whom the media is frantically trying to couple him...are exposing their feelings about the political correctness oppression they feel as they see their traditions and climate slipping away into globalisation and its well advance, enforced monoculture and turmoil, all for advancement of the New Order. Trump wants a new order..one of his devising and vision' .Now we will all have to face the why's, where-fore's and 'what if's and for that Trump deserves accolade; he also does for a revolutionary method of selecting his advisors...he's showing us that we can empower ourselves and not just 'get into line'.

I thought it amusing that Trump will not be 'slumming-it' in the Whitehouse ((bugged every microsecond and relentlessly intruded upon by new order weasels) ...he's going to live at his own choice...brilliant first decision. Getting out of the TPT is also sensible...leaving Australian government (the people don't count after the vote is over) to hand over more empowerment, in the region, to China with which it has been scheming for a decade and most worryingly in Rural sales and the exploitation of the Antarctic.

There could have been worse elected, Jeb. Bush, e.g. organiser of the Florida conspiracy which saw GW corruptly elected, McCain...the less said the better...for example or Hillary Clinton.

I'm less concerned about Trump in the Presidency than I am about research which seeks pathways to mind manipulation by drugs. I hope actually that the Trump time in Office will see a dramatic reduction in the use of antidepressants and "consciousness- altering" drugs and people feeling they can 'stomach breathe' again.

I heard that Trump will forgo the Presidential salary...I see some issues arising there about his allegiances if that's a fac, t however you have to give him consistency...he can continue to avoid tax by rejecting income. I feel some envy (not motivation) that he can afford to forgo such a sum....dang his hide y'all....

Dear Alfredo,

“…Information is not absolute…”

The information is the absolute – anything/everything  what humans observe and don’t observe in our Universe and outside is/are some informational patterns/informational systems that are elements of absolutely fundamental and absolutely infinite “Information” Set – this fact can be  – and is –  rigorously proven – see paper “The Information as Absolute” https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260930711_the_Information_as_Absolute  

“…It depends on the most fundamental category: energy….Information requires a material substrate to act on (as in Aristotle´s hylomorphism).”

Because of that there cannot be something besides an information, any “carrier”, “storage”, etc. of/for the information can be only some information[al patterns] itself. As well as any “material substrates” is always some informational patterns also. That is another thing that humans cannot “see”, i.e. understand, now this primary information and see and understand some informational links in Matter on very high levels of organization; and in this case informational patterns turn out to be hard enough; so humans, say, can walk on them.

The notion/phenomenon “Energy” isn’t “more fundamental ” then the notion/phenomenon “Information”. In contrast to utmost fundamental notions/phenomena in mainstream philosophy – i.e. “Matter” and “Idea [“Spirit”, “Consciousness”, “Gods”, etc.]”, which in the mainstream are some principally transcendent notions/phenomena, Information isn’t transcendent and can be rationally studied.

Including yet now it is understandable, for example, that to make some information is necessary to have the possibility “to place information somewhere” and that any information must be structuarezed – between elements – “words” must be some “spacing”. This conditions are provided in any/every information by that there exist utmost fundamental [in the reality - grammar] Rules/Possibilities “Space” and “Time”.

“Space” and “Time” aren’t unique utmost fundamental Rules/Possibilities that “make something completely uncertain into some information” – it seems rather probable that there exist another Rules, Possibilities, etc. that are principally necessary for existence of any information at all; concrete humans languages contain usually a lot of grammar rules besides the ones above.

These utmost fundamental Rules, Possibilities, etc. constitute the set [of Rules…], in the “The Information as Absolute” conception – the set “Logos”. At that all “Rules…” are some informational patterns, of course. In all above there is nothing surprising – Information is rather complex and paradoxical notion/phenomenon.

  “Energy” is a member of Logos also and is an “active”, in contrast to “passive” “Space” and “Time”, “grammar Necessity” that is necessary to change any information when the utmost fundamental notions/phenomenon “Change” is logically self-inconsistent. At that seems as rather rational to suggest that “Energy” isn’t so smart that “knows” what energy must be spent in concrete changes; it acts “on a bits level”; again – see SS post above – it seems, for example, that human’s consciousness spends practically equal energies to produce a trivial and non-trivial thoughts if the thoughts have “equal lengths in bits/letters”. Including seems with a rather large probability that energy hasn’t some concrete “forms”, [“absolute”, i.e. intrinsic] values, etc…

Here seems enough; more – see the link.

Cheers

Article the Information as Absolute

Sergey...Quick thoughts: you wrote "concrete humans languages contain usually a lot of grammar rules besides the ones above"...My opinion is that the quantum and precision of grammar depends on the need for it.as well a the repeatability needed particularly in very 'law inhibited' communities which include fear based communities. . One of the great benefits of English language is the ease with which it can switch readily between time frames, adopt all the time based principles of Latin and (therefore) French and as well has adopted words from languages which fill a need for precision. "Pigeon" is an example of low needs based grammar.

You wrote of (plus some further info) "it seems, for example, that "human’s consciousness spends practically equal energies to produce a trivial and non-trivial thoughts" There may be some limitations on the quantity of language or its 'bits' in modern parlance which you then used, but I also think that the reasons for time spent on trivia/non trivia may be affected by pleasure, motivation, needs and conditions such as fitness, activity, ADHD, Aspergers, awareness, consciousness and the degree to which a person has accepted the conditions of religious commitment such as self examination, guilt, rightfulness, responsibility,  analysing 'god' pondering religious argument....in which years of it doing can produce very little. "Faith" is the algebra for all that!...don't worry about it, just believe...which has the world right now on the brink of maelstrom.

Dear Alfredo,

This is a question, not a comment.Is motivation connected with a deviation from homeostasis, the larger the deviation the stronger the motivation to return to it, in analogy with Hooke's law in mechanics? Redox reactions, which are intimately connected with respiration are vital elements in cellular homeostasis.

Dear Harry,

Arnold Trehub's theory of motivation goes in this direction. I do not directly relate motivation with homeostasis. 

The most important incentive is a success, the main engine is a success.

Eric Kandel has the quality to explain very difficult things in a way that it seems logic and simple. Very often he makes us aware that this is according the reductionism of science. If we consider one pathway it's easy to follow, but with all the feedbacks it becomes very difficult and how do we know if an action potential is coming from a thought, a feeling, a wish, a view, a sound.... the mind doesn't make any difference and it is the personality that reacts as a whole.

In a book From Neuron to Brain by Kuffler, who collaborated with Kandel, we can read:

Problems of different scope and magnitude arise in connection with questions concerning the neural basis of perception and the initiation of 'willed' movements. The complications introduced by such 'higher functions' can no longer be avoided. For example, the functions of the cerebral cortex cannot be considered without reference to consciousness, perception, and volition.

Kandel wanted to know how consciousness was working and did many tests  on mice and aplysia. Later he wrote a book 'The Age of Insigh' all about Art and his birthplace Vienna; Kokoschka, Schiele, Klimt. What would have been his motivation to turn to art? This answer could shed light on the question involved.

Dear H.K. Hisham and Rita:

I am in agreement that motivation cannot be reduced to physiological homeostasis. It is more related to our expectations, or to the success of our goal-directed activities, as implied by H.K. The brain substrates of these expectations are global waves of feeling, that cannot be reduced to concentrations of substances in synapses.

After seeing Trump's appointment to the environment and Israel I withdraw 99% of the hope I spoke-of  during my 'light relief'. letter of 22 November. For that I deserve a penance of at least 15 decades!  At the outset of the discussion Alfredo wrote "When a stimulus is emotionally strong, there is a release of serotonin in addition to the release of the glutamate that carries the sensory message." . There must be a lot of it being generated around the world since those announcements in recent weeks....now...back to the real 'stuff' Rita wrote "the mind doesn't make any difference and it is the personality that reacts as a whole."...I don't quite absorb that. The often appalling decisions ('sub-optimal' barely describes some of them) is based on the amygdala and the chemicals and pathways of the mind. There are periods in life (I must recall the scientist and cite him) when incurable neurosis can arise, perhaps...he stated,....around age 30 years of age ....owing to pain experienced by a foetus in the period there is no barrier to that pain.

If we are a personality...and in my view we are constructed of hundreds of different responses....that is numerous personality combinations any of which can be 'morph'd' with or without our 'proactive' desire then however separated from our actions, te mind is involved. It is the 'counting house' and the' commander' of our feelings and actions. We at any instant are the product of foetal experience and dna, chemical production, injury and fatigue, environment and remembered experiences, intrinsic and extrinsic inhibition, life exposures to religious madness or sanity (justification inhibitions on a scale of mesmerisation, exposure, incompetence, mischief  and power seeking)  on a filters and accelerants through  age and rapidity of thinking, self image and fear. for mention of a few. We have no entirely consistent personality, we have far more changes than the changes observed  by 'others'. 

If one has ever seen a Collins ART-13 transmitter tuning on its 'auto-tune..can be seen on Utube, then I say that in much more rapid motion is how we make decisions....which may be simply justification of our instinct. There's a point in the ART -13 auto-tune where it stops and some elements reverse and or go forward. This is like us when we stop, through for some maturity, others fairness, others to enable their venom to amass and cruelty to explode, others to read some religious propaganda and mind screwing  to justify their decision to commit atrocity.In all that I can't see how we can take out the mind. Logically without it...unless replaced by some similar device...we live as a vegetable (with a soul!...) or we die.

The mind creates and stores the thousands of elements which can combine to make nuance of personality. The reason people commit what most consider appalling crimes can be mental confusion or lack of choice when the Amagdyla is behaving immaturely or is fed chemicals which set-off chain reactions.....or because, perhaps through no fault of their own....or could be from the sort of desensitisation the New order is forcing on the world over the last 230 years. Those are travesties in invasions and assassinations but also in recent decades  in which we are mostly denied the ghoulishness of personal involvement  in an escalation of 'entertainment' involving realistic gore and dwelling on corpses complete or incomplete, crawling with maggots and deliberately raising the emotional  level needed our 'shock horror' reactions.

Our old friend 'having someone for dinner tonight' Hannibal Lector was a laboratory of sensual identification but his more universal sense of pleasure commenced at a point which we would regard as travesty, atrocity, outrage, vileness, insanity, evil. When considering people who have performed ghastly crimes but setting aside those who's religions produce insanity and satanic evil including my own (when taken as a subsect instead of dwelling only on the life of Jesus)...Christianity, those appalling actions come from people who are only 'rewarded' with pleasure at the time we are going into an escape coma!...

The 'repeating'  goes to Alfredo's comment (my opinion) "The memory of the pattern of the stimulus becomes embodied in the new formed connections"...If Hannibal or the young men (e.g.) some years past now in Sydney convicted of horrific rapes of 'infidels' on "religious grounds" and who showed no remorse (an often very unfair assessment of the inner person's confusion) rather the contrary, enjoyed just smoking a cigar in a restaurant we might disapprove strongly but 'understand' that a person can satiate with cigarette 'pleasure' and move to the more-raw, cigar or pipe.

Transfer that to say only getting discernible pleasure when torturing an animal or a person.  I mentioned one obvious religion...because religious indoctrination and spin on life and peoples' intentions and reality (no less than political or financial paranoia) is affecting us right now, however in fairness Christianity practised the machinating of peoples' minds in the cause of terrorism as did and does the religion from which has been the root of religions which vilify each other and who's soldiers live on concocted tales of reward for treating the others as animals...as though animals have no rights. Christianity having eased-off a bit since perhaps Tito, the 2nd Vatican Council and discovery within the Vatican of appalling conduct but a long way since say the Huguenots, Templars and Cathar abominations is seeing a revival of its own past but saying nothing against it. So...where is the mind of a religion?...who controls it?...what are its foundations (dna) filters inhibitions, blind-eyes  and encouragement? Unless we are the pathology which follows the Dice-Man"  we will have a religion of sorts. Omni-present Atheism is, for example, a religion.

Each of these religions has numerous personalities the most dominant being the 'excuse maker'. Should we compare, then, the institutions to which we give credit or adulation to ourselves and our emulation of their personalities as 'justified'. Where can we place, owing to our own lives, the formative dna, our reflection on the observations of others and then our reactions behaviour and things initiated, our choices indoctrinations and excuses.  

I would (in my concept) see Rita's "the mind doesn't make any difference and it is the personality that reacts as a whole." as  "The mind stores all the elements of our exposure to personalities, the personality components  and the memory of the  stimuli and from the mind springs the incremental personality, which may be a good choice or bad, saving or disastrous, chosen at any fraction of a nanosecond (demending on our reaction gating) from that store of personality components selected through dna, pre and post-natal experience, stimulus , diet, condition, anxiety fear and dimensions of religious indoctrination (or other social declension). Voila.

Heepish 'ever so 'umble"  I prithee react not to "demending on our reaction gating" but 'resulting from our reaction-gating" ...gating being logic-gating... Perhaps  my mind was seeking "serotonin-plus" in creating  an excuse for a good old flagellation, as with Adolph Eichmann in the early scenes of "The Man in the Glass Booth"...Minds have a mind of their own!

The fact is that everyone has another motivation to answer this question. There is an inner motivation, which doesn't depend on success and there is an outer motivation which uses the theory of demagogy.

We see that the media is often following the last category which brings sensation instead of sentiments.

I prefer to fight for my own reality coupled with the highest refinements of the brainwaves. If we consider scientists as well as artists, we see that many are understood long time after death and by this understanding, the creation of an own spacetime, they start a second life, on many levels at once, depending on the number and quality of interpreters and the public.

They motivation of the public by going to concerts is never taken seriously although it is the vital link to understand the whole.

Dear Rita,

Many thinkers and artists do not receive social recognition during the time they produce their work; how do they become recognized after death? There is, of course, some factor that motivates people to attend to their message. In the past, this factor could be the lack of divulgation, but today the speed and range of information spreading rules our this kind of factor. Other factors are: being too ahead of the time; being too sophisticated for the average person; not having support from (more famous) connections who could subscribe the work; not really wanting to be famous...

The question that I make to myself is if the search for progress in understanding the human condition and the world we live in is a factor that motivates people's recognition. I believe it is, for the reason that (I think that) consciousness is reflexive - it is like a mirror that reflects the events of a person's life experience and - in a degree - the whole history of the universe that led to the existence of the conscious person.

By studying the whole history of mankind, following the evolution from molecule to cell to conscious being, we find the motivation to play; no longer staying between the gray public, but become an actor oneself. This standing up is never appreciated by the media and schools because they want to choose who can be the actors, they want to decide who has the right to speak. And further, the politics and people in power never find it as an advantage that people get consciousness by reflection.

Study and experience are the motivations to help mankind to higher regions of consciousness, where neuron transmitters flow for a better understanding and extreme happiness. Eric Kandel and Steve Lacy did their best for it.

I wish everyone a happy New Year 2017!

Rita De Vuyst

My response above was from a  long dissertation at present back in '6' and which concluded with

"Each of these religions has numerous personalities the most dominant being the 'excuse maker'. Should we compare, then, the institutions to which we give credit or adulation to ourselves and our emulation of their personalities as 'justified'. Where can we place, owing to our own lives, the formative dna, our reflection on the observations of others and then our reactions behaviour and things initiated, our choices indoctrinations and excuses. 

 I would (in my concept) see Rita's "the mind doesn't make any difference and it is the personality that reacts as a whole." as  "The mind stores all the elements of our exposure to personalities, the personality components  and the memory of the  stimuli and from the mind springs the incremental personality, which may be a good choice or bad, saving or disastrous, chosen at any fraction of a nanosecond (resulting from our reaction-(logic) gating) from that store of personality components selected through dna, pre and post-natal experience, stimulus , diet, condition, anxiety fear and dimensions of religious indoctrination (or other social declension). Voila.

And yes, to all here, Happiest New Year

Returning to the thread question – the question is a little uncertain, since the notion “motivation”  has a number of meanings. For example – when a brick falls from a roof under Earth gravity, then is the gravity “a motivation of the brick to fall?”

 If we assume that such “motivations”  aren’t relevant to the tread’s question and consider only motivations of conscious beings, then the question becomes be essentially senseless – human’s mind is nothing more then some material system and its unique difference from a brick is that the brain exists and is governed constantly not only by material forces [at material biochemical reactions here], but by the principally non-material self-aware system  “human’s consciousness”  also.

Though indeed on this stage of her development human’s consciousness operates mostly aimed at better operation of her material stable residence – all human’s body, including the brain; and “motivates” the brain and further the nervous system and the body as a whole to make corresponding material actions.

Including

“…Study and experience are the motivations to help mankind to higher regions of consciousness, where neuron transmitters flow for a better understanding and extreme happiness…”,  etc. 

till now most of “extreme happiness” states, which, again, can be perceived only consciously  as such states, often have “material nature”.

Nonetheless the consciousness can “feel” extreme happiness that relate to her inherent non-material base, for example – the states of the consciousness at solving hard mental [e.g. scientific] problems – rather possible Archimedes was very happy saying “Eureka!”; the feelings of religions believers at religions ecstasy, etc. And just these “non-material” cases seems show that the human’s consciousness isn’t intended for to operate providing better conditions for material body– i.e. better comfort, better male/female, better food, etc. only, she has a potential for future development with going out Matter into new regions of the “Information” Set.

More – see the SS post on 6-th page and the link in the post; possible relevant could be SSDZ post in http://personalitycafe.com/critical-thinking-philosophy/839810-we-just-slaves-our-own-physical-bodies-6.html#post27979449

Happy New Year

Cheers

Hi Sergey..bon annee On "is the gravity “a motivation of the brick to fall?” yes....and always was...what happened was the at the motivation the brick had to 'fall' was interrupted by an arrestation, a blockage through which the mass of the brick could not penetrate nor of its own accord circumvent as the motivation it experiences is most forceful only towards the gravitational concentration....movement sideways owing to the spin of the earth's centrifugal force is not enough on a horizontal plane but on a sloping plane...perhaps the gravity might again take over motivation.

However....

One of the great mysteries of life is 'when I drop a coin from time to time why does it invariably roll across into a grate or drain or onto the road or under a counter?...are their poltergeists? or can gravity play tricks? or is there a lesson to be learned?

Concerning "“non-material” cases seems show that the human’s consciousness isn’t intended for to operate providing better conditions for material body"...this is the reason happiness is elusive...instead of living simply, applying intellect to developing other intelligence factors which make for happier living we encourage, tolerate, elect and further tolerate psychopaths ..ourselves distracted by self destructive obsessions such as hatred, religious hypnotism,  'computer games',social media, gambling, fashionable entertainment. Gravity is acting on us pulling us down into mass psychosis. We don't know when to stop and would sell our souls in some cases, for identification with frenetic behaviour and when unattainable, worshipping it in others.

Contemplating religion, it has become a method of enrichment, but Jesus didn't live a rich life...he had more magic available than Houdini or any of the so called 'leaders' mankind has tolerated over thousands of years but he didn't exploit it...and this is the setting point...having intelligence may be having the asset we have for putting brakes on the fantasies intelligence can devise and deliver, instead dealing with the reality in a way which enables happiness without exploitation, or being exploited.

A study on motivation by Dr. Armando Freitas da Rocha in You Tube (link below)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OxpNFgtznw&feature=youtu.be

Our brain is center force of our life . Due to the functioning of our brain we have become a creative energy for our working action of our life . It is this action for which we are contributing as a part of our working environment ,our family , sometime rejoining with social fabrics.

It is the main functioning of our mind & brain joining with our inner urge & divinity within us which help us to take an inspiring action of our life . However quite often due to our negative urge & reaction we miss our train & to switch over our motivation for right type of action.

It is in this line sometime back in my publication i have expressed my views on area of '' Motivation'' which i submit herewith for your perusal & for our valued readers , as a part of personal opinion in this regards .

Motivation makes selections and selections are based on conscious and unconscious orders. The hierarchy of orders is making up the autobiographic memory, the more coherence there is in this regulation and reconfiguration of neuron activity and their networks, the better the whole is functioning in specific cases.

Motivation is opposed by ISO in factories and computer networks.

Hi Rita, thanks for the 'plug'...nice to see input from SA....I presume that by 'order' you man 'an ordering or hierarchical level 'n vlak...ein level"..although 'command' wouldn't make a massive difference. I think you are speaking of a series of well chosen and confidently placed 'building blocks' of nutrition and sweetness which attract  the equivalent of bee pollination and anerobic digestors....wellness attracting the natural proponents of organic growth and co-operation within our make-up, developing our potential for 'greatness' mindfulness and health..

The emerging coherence built on a selection-set  for 'evil', can also have a catastrophic downside (e.g. Bush, Mileikowsky, Pol Pot, The Clintons, Trump,) and other psychopaths rolled out for us in the great theatre of new order farce"

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he doesn't exist" We do this relentlessly in purporting that tribal life ran on virtue and decency"...Not so, Not at all... it was as brutal as Syria, presumably  from time immemorial and exploited as big-game hunting  entertainment in invasions of Gaza.or kidnapping and brutalising children in Somalia....all on "Religious" reasoning. Dingaan was the voertrekker's first exposure to the monstrous mindsets of since sanitised regional rule.. 

We are continually pressured to adopt ways of developing which ultimately destroy us. If we turn out to be so good we lessen the power of evil...often discrediting, even assassination is our lot. If we fall into line as is commonplace today, we accept out programming...noticed? the upsurge in 'post mortem' programmes, decaying corpses, examination of psychopathy. ... Whilst millions of people are being massacred  the 'graphic' violence and sexual hunger become increasingly available and available  to young audiences.  "For mature audiences only' really means ' for immature audiences needing hits of  brutalisation and salaciousness to feed their addiction'.

I thought I was a pretty fair teacher , but found students watching porn on mobile 'phones and 'tablets' instead of doing exams or during classes. The College banned mobile phones but refused to enforce the rule using nonsense excuses. Moral and ethical cowardice are endemic today and I think maybe that is analysed in your opening statements..

Hunger for coherence has a very dark side (e.g.Idi Amin, Osama Bin laden  and Sadam Hussein) when people seek acceptance 'coherence'  through adding their life to powerful hypocritical, disingenuous,  others'...such as Idi Amn on retiring to UK... "I only did what the west wanted me to do"

Bin Laden a photographic personality  produced for us of was  person in commercial partnership with the neo-cons, used to excuse the invasion of the Middle East so long pressured by Israel after the USS Liberty attack failed to achieve it,  Hussein the producer of an advanced Arab State "The US told me they agreed with my invading Kuwait". In such cases the machinator inveigles the person seeking to be a part of a coherence, tricks them and then uses them for propaganda.

One of your writers Rian Malan faced the dichotomies and disintegration of inner self in "My Traitor's Heart". Robert Ruark, something of an 'event-plagiarist' who's "Uhuru" was in part portrayed in the Dirk Bogarde /Virginia Mckenna film "Simba" drew on a similar theme as Malan's (when Rian returned to Africa  and saw the Kenyan carnage from sources he'd long supported when at University and against his Malan family...  at one point each scenario asks..." but why...all they ever did was be kind to the people'. Behind the scenes, however,  the British Government was supporting Kenyatta and his movement which was attacking the Brits (often attracted to Kenya by propaganda booklets...I have one somewhere,,,,a dream world just waiting for competent farmers) .The desire for cohesion can create monstrous evil. Today the desire for acceptance...a cohesion... takes the form of plagiarised tribal tattoos, (and others) body jewellery moral and sociological devolvement and social media.

That's my current opinion. Perhaps you can critique my response in the light of what you meant, Rita

I'd like to hear you more on the "motivation is  opposed" I see your point in a general oversight but you have been very succinct in a subject that I think interesting (not only as ISO's arise in my course but on a philosophical level). As this is off the topic and I felt guilty unwittingly doing that elsewhere, perhaps you can go direct if you want. Do you have a direct email?

Hi Alfredo, I don't have the laboratory to say this but I do have the perspicacity...there will be neurobiological differences because stimulii underwrite them. I spoke of this else where that what gave horror to us about was for him likely just an awakening of pleasure. Is this 'evil'? I don't think so, whether immediate of over a time, evil is a choice but one which may be driven unconsciously through seeking pleasure without regard to other persons.  Of the many examples enjoying the slaughter of Palestinians is one when the perpetrator thinks that his (her) victim is actually enjoying the horror, pain, disintegration so much that every resistance and reactivity means they want more.

Trump promenading himself as a sort of man of Olympus showed the illness we are absorbing under globalisation in various ways. I'm not sure where the lower orders are a line drawn in the sand but a lot of very clever and intellectual people voted Trump.....it's not only the dummies who are fatigued with fashionable political ideas of liberalism being the freedom to comply and liberty being the freedom to destroy.

A significant example was when confronted by a questioner as to not at all being a good business man as he claimed and recalling  over the 1100 people he had put out of work and the $Billions lost in one State alone  Trump was cheered in his repetitive response "I was happy, I made money...I made money". Now that's what some call caring "tough love"...Obviously the 1100 didn't work hard enough so deserved to be thrown on the scrap-heap. The $billions lost probably went to a good cause..maybe a great cause...maybe bought a new diamond necklace, house for Trump's scarecrow  wife, whilst he nested and coo'd over his ability to use the law to screw others. "If you don't like it 'change the law' he ranted elsewhere,. He and Clinton are both socio-criminals with histories of corruption so naturally who better for the Bilderbergers, Lodge, Central bankers and Illuminati to put up for President...and both receive the crucial Israel seal of approval. Trump, to his credit,  doing one thing unusual however 'keeping my promises'. He's matching Amin and Mugabe and Bush in that virtue.

Is he? am I?..are we? are neuro scientists  'neurologically normal',... I wonder.....?

Trump was elected not only because Hilary Clinton is what she is but because he gave voice to what scores of millions in USA alone are thinking, and with good cause though perhaps  not limiting it to staying short of indecency and hysteria from his mesmerisation antics. ...and said he'd FIX  it. He promised also to relieve American unemployment by employing people for whom protestors are low life (and some certainly are, including the 'rent-a-crowd' but then...the Trumps of the world employ the same tactics, with a lot more resources.

I think a lot of us who very much alarmed at Trump also want to see 'how it goes'....Employing the Exxon chief who  presided over the world's worst oil disaster, an ambassadr "more zionist than the zionists" according to an Israeli report and a person to handle education  who has never been involved could be just the kick-start for which we have so long awaited...the second coming! I know we got it all wrong but...I didn't realise how wrong....where's my flagillator"?

Popular and admired American Presidents have been philanderers and associated with ciminal 'syndicates' ...Kennedy and Roosevelt were but two, ...Lincoln (Greenberg) was a 'serial' adulterer who's wife became addicted to drugs supposedly to cope...and may have been involved in his assassination....there have been many since...yet Trump's "locker room banter' created a furore.

The pathetic circus of melancholy disguised by flag waving nationalism firecrackers  commentators and cult-owned media manipulation called "the US Elections' in my view would be well served by the Russian input which is being presently machinated. What was hysterically 'funny' was the US version concession 'well yes we do collect intelligence...but we don't use it to interfere in other governments'....that wouldn't be ethical, not fair. Was  that a cuckoo clock I heard in the background? as he spoke so sincerely and convincingly.

Without going into Cold war reality I think it fair to say that more can be achieved by friends than enemies and certainly a far less catastrophe for the serfs...the cannon fodder and actors in 'democracy' and other 'happy national arrangements'  taxpayers kept poor in impositions,. inflation'...a totally unnecessary financial invention, indecent and by comparison with the rich and powerful,  inequitable treatment by law officers and the judiciary, earning a few dollars an hour in the most inaccessible health system on earth.... Will the laboratory rat finally make these people feel happy through 'science' enabling them to feel ecstatic as their lives disintegrate?

Cui bono?

Vladamir wrote "A classic example is the US election, when all the calculations to motivate professionals failed."...I'd be interested to have that unpacked so I can think about it. In the meantime I'll speculate however deviating and with apologies if I am... Is it 'calculating power-brokers' trying to turn the 'intelligentia' against Trump?....I'm not challenging it as I'm not sure what is meant...Would anyone with intelligence vote for Hillary Clinton? unless Faustian...Will the USA airports soon have signs over the entrances become 'Abandon Hope all Ye Who enter Here?. Is there a national neurology available to be altered...the Rifle Association shows there is...I suppose one could say the same of rap-dancers.

MK Ultra and MK Delta financed by the Government and the Government drug partnerships of have been immensely successful in the mental disintegration of  significant areas of population. I guess at least that's a staring point Wall Street and its legion of hangers-on, families and hareems are overjoyed with Trump.  I doubt he'll be buying the steel and concrete for 'the wall' from China so scrap metal prices might increase.

Maybe one day there'll be a way to analyse reality in the mind in a fleeting second.....all the tests an stimuli may support the ability to make 'control' decisions but the "trump' card (pun?) is that mysterious antagonist/protagonist 'the soul' if not actually a component of the brain...in other words 'is the brain the mind?'... If it isn't....there will always be 'glitches'.

Those billions who think the slaughter of Armageddon...which we are presently experiencing... will i be when(thier)  'god'  shows their religion was the right one all along provide a blank canvass for analysing both evil and insanity. To quote "the psychiatricts" in the Fawlty Towers programme of the Laboratory of mental mystery and melancholic confusion when referring to Basil (Trump??) Fawlty..commented ."there's enough there for an entire conference"

Another aspect that may be worth addressing in relation to your question is the fact that there are two separate, but interconnected aspects related to ‘motivation’.   Firstly, there are fundamental processes, which can lay a foundation for motivation.   These are neurological/biochemical by nature.   You raised some of these in your original question.   However, they affect different areas of the brain differently.   As an example, at the perceptual level chemical 'rewards' are provided to areas of the brain such as the Supplementary Eye Fields (So & Stuphorn, 2012) and Superior Colliculus (Schutz, et al, 2011) to control perception.   As an example, the value and reward system in the brain (see the previous references) can shape a person's attention to a particular item, and consequently influence higher level processing.  For instance, overt attention can be triggered at the perceptual level of processing, and this makes it more likely that higher level processing (including the shaping of impressions, comprehension and retention) will take place (Dehaene, et al., 2006).

For the purposes of simplification in this response, I will group these higher-level processes as simply being cognitive.   In this case, there are a wide range of areas within the brain that can influence how the information is processed.   As an example, the insular cortices interact with the limbic system, striatum, thalamus, frontal cortices, etc. (Pennartz, et al., 2011), to integrate cognitive and emotional processing, prior to receipt of the information in the frontal cortices (Gu, et al., 2013).  In other words, impressions, attitudes and motivation are already mixed with the perceived material even before it has reached the frontal cortices.  Although these biopsychological processes will undoubtedly be affected by various neurological connections and the influence of different neurotransmitters, the processes are likely to be less simplistic than the ones that were raised in the original question.   This is even reflected in Kandel, et al. (2000).

I also suspect that the issue is not just about motivation in its simplest form.  You may find that some of the outcomes relate to the generation of attention spikes and reverberation (see Wang, 2001; Nadel & Hardt, 2011; Mongillo, et al. 2008; Khan & Muly, 2011; Chua, 2009; Ptak, 2012).  For instance, in some cases the improvement in retention may simply be due to the novelty of the material (Fenker, et al.,2008), which can also generate positive impressions (Tuch, et al. 2012).   Consequently, causation in terms of your original question is likely to be much more complex than just addressing the biopsychological aspects.

I hope that this information will be of help.

Dear Bruce,

Your answer really helps to understand how contemporary neuroscience approaches motivational processes, but in my theoretical perspective the main ingredient of motivation is still missing in your picture. The main ingredient in my approach is "feeling". I distinguish feeling from "knowing". The processes you mention are all related to perceiving and (cognitively) interpreting sensory information. These factors are not properly motivational. I understand motivation as the force that drives the behavioral response to the perceived and interpreted stimuli. It is not the (cognitively) interpreted stimulus alone that drives the response! After the interpretation, there is an evaluation/appraisal process by which the system connects the interpreted stimulus with one of the actions available in the system's repertory. In this evaluation process, there are affective and cognitive constraints. Most authors (as G. Northoff - see http://www.georgnorthoff.com/) address the cognitive factors, while a few (as A. Damásio and myself) address the role of feelings and emotions. My concept of feeling is more radical than Damasio's, because his concept reduces to a (cognitive) mapping of somatic states. I relate feeling with a hydro-ionic wave (see the link below) in living tissue that is physiologically different from the kind of neuronal activity (spike trains) usually addressed in cognitive and computational neurosciences.

Article Astroglial hydro-ionic waves guided by the extracellular mat...

Dear Alfredo,

                Thank you for your follow-on post.   I should have perhaps been more descriptive/clear in my previous post.   Here are some key dot-points, which I can flesh out if required, but I sadly don’t have the time to do this now:

In the post that I provided, I was in fact talking about both feelings and knowing.   The two are inextricably interlinked within the perception and cognition processes.

For example, at a mechanistic level the insular cortices mix perceived material with impression (feelings) that are gained from key areas within the limbic system (e.g. amygdala, septum and hippocampi).  Such interaction can apply attitudinal aspects to cognition at an early stage, which can then influence all of the following transactions.   This is why I raised this point in my earlier post.  It accords with your view that the feelings and emotions are influenced by somatic states.   For instance, these may be influenced by a hydro-ionic wave (which is likely to be a characteristic related to the concept of reverberation as well) that affects broader areas of the brain.   However, motivation/feelings may also be influenced by very specific interactions between different neural zones.

My research has led me to believe that such mixed influences can and do drive interpretation and motivation at a fundamental level.

Like many aspects of processing in the mind, we therefore need to think about top down and bottom up processing.   In terms of bottom up, simple things can be influential in creating motivations.   As an example, the aesthetics of a visual entity can actually influence how an individual feels about material that is provided.   Interestingly, when you look at what creates aesthetics these are influenced by quite low level issues (e.g. colour, size, layout, orientation, etc.).

On the other hand motivation is also influenced by top down processes.   These are often attitudinal and at the neural level they are affected by interaction between the frontal cortices (e.g. orbitofrontal, ventromedial PFC in particular), striatum, limbic system and a range of other areas.  This level of processing better reflects the cognitive aspects, where the individual is drawing on specific memories and feelings to shape their motivation.

This is where your second post comes into the mix.   Yes, Trump does appear to have leveraged communications techniques that worked well with his target audience.   However, as you pointed out, this effect is probably not due to some fundamental differences in neural constructs in the brains of different people, it will be due to both the bottom up and top down processes applicable to that audience.  As an example, his target audience may have found his simple verbiage easier to process, which reduced cognitive load and resulting dissonance (a bottom up influence).   Similarly, he elucidated and reinforced their fears and consequently the message had resonance with individuals because his content reinforced limbic system content (top down influence).   Such resonance may then have influenced areas of the brain such as the thalamus/ hypothalamus, Insula and PFC to create general and specific neural/biological changes that actuated their motivation.

So the bottom line is:   I agree with your general concept, but I do not think that we can just focus on low level processes (e.g. bottom up).   We need to look at the interaction of the top down and bottom up processes and then address the specific and general neural/biological changes that ensue/drive the cognitive changes.

I hope that this information will be of help.

Dear Bruce:

I agree that feeling and knowing are closely related, both in the brain and in the mind. I also agree that brain bottom up and top down processes are involved in all conscious processes (a good theory in this regard is Steve Grossberg's Adaptive Resonance Theory).

My claim in the previous post is more radical; I am arguing that cognition is not the force that motivates behavior. Cognition only helps us to choose the socially more convenient actions to guide our actions and then satisfy our desires (which are defined by the interplay of our emotional feelings).

This claim can be defended in biological and sociological approaches.

Biologically, by showing that the brain activations influencing the motor cortex, with the power to determine actions, are closely related to the instantiation of emotional feelings, while activations dedicated to perception and properly cognitive processes are not. There is a difficulty to prove or disprove this claim, because neuroscientists are still not sure about what kinds of brain activity instantiate emotional feelings (the hydro-ionic hypothesis was formulated to fill this gap). Of course, there are places where both kinds of mental processes meet, as the prefrontal cortex.

Sociologically, by showing that people's actions are not strictly rational, as shown by Dan Arielly in the book "Predictably Irrational". The title is not adequate, because following desires determined by the interplay of our emotional feelings is not "irrational". The data in the book suggests a different kind of rationality (compared to the traditional paradigms of rationality in the cognitive sciences).

We can also see the feelings as processes, joy does not exist in time, neither love or hate, everything is built up by time and what we inherit from generations. I don't see a sharp difference between feelings and cognitive processes either. The difference between thinking and feeling is very thin. Hate is probably good explored but the process of love is not so easy to bring into a model and motivation is may be the best at work in love.

It is interesting that motivation could be reduced to some chemicals like serotonin and glutamamin acid or glutamat. I would like to ask for the reasons of that stimulation. If we are able to answer this question we would understand much deeper our mind.

Dear Wilfred, Who claims that motivation can be reduced to chemicals?