Dear Michael,

Please check these papers also:

Bhagwat SA, Willis KJ: Species persistence in northerly glacial refugia of Europe: a matter of chance or biogeographical traits? J Biogeogr 2008, 35:464–482.;

Petit RJ, Brewer S, Borda´cs S, Burg K, Cheddadi R, et al. (2002) Identification of refugia and post-glacial colonisation routes of European white oaks based on chloroplast DNA and fossil pollen evidence. For Ecol Manage 156: 49–74.

Magri D, Vendramin GG, Comps B, Dupanloup I, Geburek T, Gomory D,

Latalowa M, Litt T, Paule L, Roure JM, Tantau I, van der Knaap WO, Petit RJ,

de Beaulieu JL: A new scenario for the Quaternary history of European

beech populations: palaeobotanical evidence and genetic

consequences. New Phytol 2006, 171:199–221.

Generally, you will get the direction of the arrows if you read both population genetic and pollen papers. Especially the Fagus and Pinus arrows should not originate from the Balkans, but from further north! See relevant publications.

Most prominent west-eurasian pleistocene refugia are in the South Caucasus (e.g., Colchis). Please check this link http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6785/1/6

Not directly on trees you mention, but you might find some useful references

Thank you - I will have a look at these South Caucasian records. The reason why I ask: I'm working on a wall display for a museum exhibition that includes a series of Holocene vegetation maps (different time slices) sand would like to add arrows that illustrate migration paths (of certain tree species).

Michael,

I am not sure the migration routs for these tree genera are well known, but area around the Black Sea and the Caucasus are strong candidates for being centers of recolonization the post-glaical space in western Eurasia

In southern Iberia there are some glacial refugia too. You can check this paper Rodríguez-Sánchez et al., 2010: Past tree range dynamics in the Iberian Peninsula inferred through phylogeography and palaeodistribution modelling: A review

Dear Ricarco and Zaal, thank you for the references. In the end it might be difficult to rule any particular meditteranean or western Asian region as refugium for trees during the LGM.

There is a phd-thesis dealing with the refugia and spread of Abies and Picea (http://hss.ulb.uni-bonn.de/2005/0562/0562.htm). The corresponding article is: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S003466670800105X.

Thanks for the references. Accordingly Abies and Picea spread from the southern Balkans to Central and West Europe (whereas North Europe was repopulated from European Russia).

yes - and as I remember (we had some discussions about that in the workgroup in Bonn) for Fagus its the same. I think the populations in Italy are genetically quite different from that in C-Europe..

Dear Michael,

Please check these papers also:

Bhagwat SA, Willis KJ: Species persistence in northerly glacial refugia of Europe: a matter of chance or biogeographical traits? J Biogeogr 2008, 35:464–482.;

Petit RJ, Brewer S, Borda´cs S, Burg K, Cheddadi R, et al. (2002) Identification of refugia and post-glacial colonisation routes of European white oaks based on chloroplast DNA and fossil pollen evidence. For Ecol Manage 156: 49–74.

Magri D, Vendramin GG, Comps B, Dupanloup I, Geburek T, Gomory D,

Latalowa M, Litt T, Paule L, Roure JM, Tantau I, van der Knaap WO, Petit RJ,

de Beaulieu JL: A new scenario for the Quaternary history of European

beech populations: palaeobotanical evidence and genetic

consequences. New Phytol 2006, 171:199–221.

Generally, you will get the direction of the arrows if you read both population genetic and pollen papers. Especially the Fagus and Pinus arrows should not originate from the Balkans, but from further north! See relevant publications.

Dear Eniko, thank you for all these references. So more cold-resistant species also survived in northern ('cryptic') refugia in Central to East Europe whereas more thermophile species were restricted to one or several of the southern refugia (Iberia, Italy, the Balkans and coast of the Black Sea) during the Last Glacial Maximum.

In the Iberian Peninsula there were also remnants of beech forests different from the rest of Europe. See this paper for example: López Merino, L., López Sáez, J.A., Ruiz Zapata, M.B. & Gil García, M.J. (2008). Reconstructing the history of beech (Fagus sylvatica L.) in north-western Iberian Range (Spain): From Late-Glacial refugia to Holocene anthropic induced forests. Review of Palaeobotany and Palynology, 152: 58-65.

Or this one for Abies pinsapo, a endemic fir species from SW Europe and northern Africa: Alba Sánchez, F., López Sáez, J.A., De Benito Pando, B., Linares, J.C., Nieto, D. & López Merino, L. (2010). Past and present potential distribution of the Iberian Abies species: a phytogeographic approach using fossil pollen data and species distribution models. Diversity & Distributions, 16: 214-228.

Dear Michael,

You can also consider the following papers as good examples for the debate....

Tzedakis PC, Emerson BC, Hewitt GM, 2013. Cryptic or mystic? Glacial tree refugia in northern Europe. Trends in Ecology and Evolution 28: 696-704.

Lafontaine G.(de), Guerra ACA, Ducousso A, Sanchez-Goni MF, Petit RJ, 2014. Beyond skepticism: uncovering cryptic refugia using multiple lines of evidence. New Phytologist, 204: 450-454.

Good luck and happy New Year!

Freddy