Dear Niazur, I think you need not take the approval until unless the subject is directly involved in the study.

Approval required if you are conducting clinical trial on human subject directly or collecting tissue samples from hospital or bank from patients. 

Hi Niazure,

Raghuram's comment about not seeking approval unless the subject is "directly involved in the study" brought to a mind an ongoing scandal in different parts of the U.S. --  It seems doctors can utilize the bone marrow from corpses and, therefore, quite a market is being made by low-life's who go around digging up graves.  Of course, digging up graves to sell body parts is illegal; however, the more interesting dilemma is from whom one should seek permission to harvest the bone marrow of a deceased person.  I suppose if one is in legal possession of the body (say in a morgue or a scientific laboratory), one could seek out the next of kin who is still in the land of the living.

At any rate, this is a case that refutes the notion that "the human subject needs to be directly involved".  It is sufficient if the human is indirectly involved in that her body parts are being used.

Gwen

Yes.

Dear Colleague Nazur!

If we are talking about the study and the study of human's bones which stored in the anatomical museum, I assure you that the general international practice are faced with ethical problems and the need permission only in special cases. if it were unique objects or skeletons of very famous people stored in well-known museums of the world. If we are talking about the usual anatomical museum of medical or biological university and not unique anatomical preparations (collections) they are no ethical problems there. These problems (default) were resolved when the corpse of the this human was treated for making the skeleton. If you are dealing with a ready museum exhibit, there are no ethical problems do not exist. Moreover, any anatomical museum is primarily a scientific institution intended for educational and research purposes. Museum collections of bones and bone collection of ossuaries repeatedly served and serve as a source of new knowledge, with their help, performed numerous dissertations and other research. As for the previous comments, I think it's some fantastic! What is bone marrow can be found in the dried bones? The procedure for the manufacture of bone anatomical specimens, which includes disinfection, drying at high temperatures, degreasing and whitening absolutely exclude the preservation of any traces of living tissue. The only one ethical point - you must obtain the written permission of the museum administration or the head of the institution and specify the purpose of the study. One more thing - do not forget to express proper gratitude for the opportunity to carry out research. That is a worldwide practice.

Radik Khayrullin, Doctor of Medical Sciences, Professor, Head of Human Anatomy Department of Ulyanovsk State University, Russia

Re:  "I think it's some fantastic! What is bone marrow can be found in the dried bones"

Hi Radik,

Read for yourself:

“When Darlene Krzywicki's doctor told her there was a recall related to her spinal surgery, she thought he was talking about the metal rod and screws that had been inserted. She said she didn't even know that bone and marrow from a cadaver had been used in her operation, let alone that the body parts had been illegally harvested and had not been screened for infectious diseases. But the worst news was still to come. Krzywicki, a mother of two from Northeast Philadelphia, had contracted hepatitis C from the cadaver parts.”

http://articles.philly.com/2006-03-26/news/25414705_1_body-parts-michael-mastromarino-cadaver

October 5, 2007 | By Troy Graham INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

The recent body-parts scandal, in which a disgraced dentist and at least nine funeral homes stand accused of stealing bones and tissue from the dead, has made for a sensational criminal case. But it also has created a huge wave of civil litigation - one that has been growing for more than a year, with no end in sight. Hundreds of patients across the country have filed suits saying they were implanted with possibly tainted body parts pilfered from infected cadavers. More than 200 cases filed in federal courts have been consolidated in Newark, N.J., under U.S. District Court Judge William J. Martini.

http://articles.philly.com/2007-10-05/news/25231857_1_body-parts-case-body-parts-michael-mastromarino

Gwen

As far as the museum bones or cadavers from medical schools are concerned, no need to seek permission. Otherwise a permission must be required from the dead person in advance or from his blood relation to use his or her organs for any experimental purpose. 

Dear Gwendolyn Yvonne Alexis!

I have read articles in the media about which you kindly informed me! But if you do not understand the difference between a cadaver and a skeleton which stored in the museum a few decades, then about what can with you say?

Do you really think that the bones from the skeleton of the museum can be transplanted into living person? Where you taught biology and medicine?

Hi Radik,

You are rather rude.  Please re-read my post carefully.  It is amazing that you could understand my comments to refer to museum artifacts rather than to cadavers.  Even if you did because of a less-than adequate mastery of English, reviewing the links should have cleared up your misunderstanding.  Again, here is the point I was making: 

"At any rate, this is a case that refutes the notion that "the human subject needs to be directly involved.  It is sufficient if the human is indirectly involved in that her body parts are being used."

At any rate, this is my last communication with you and I request that you not again address me directly.  Life is far too short to be annoyed by rude people.  (I hope you have sought help for an obvious inferiority complex that causes you to seek joy by putting other people down.)

Gwen

Dear Gwen,

I am sorry to have to tell you the truth. Despite your higher level mastery of English (as compared with Radik's) it is him who has properly understood the original question, not you. Therefore he was right calling your original answer 'fantastic' - it would be the same if someone asked about parts of a car with a 125 horsepower engine and someone else answered that no car can be pulled simultaneously by 125 horses. Your point is simply out of the focus.

I do not await your answer, life is far too short to be annoyed by rude people.

Dear Niazur,

Ethical problems with using preserved bones kept in a museum could arise if each and every bone could be identified as a specific individual's bone (person with name, surname, lifespan and place of living known), having left some offspring. and now those descendants claim the bones of their forefather/foremother. Which would mean they were collcted agains the will (or at least without the consent) of the close relatives. Like the bones collected from some ancient cemeteries that are now being claimed by Native Americans (Amerindians). If these cemeteries are older than, say, 200-300 years, I think these claims are generally (mostly, although not always) exaggerated as no-one can really identify herself/himself as a real descendant ot the (unknown) bone-owner. Or if it is known that these bones were collected by some crime groups even if pretending to conduct a scietific research (like bones collected by some German Nazi or Soviet researchers form the victims of some gulag or concentration camp). Not if those bones were collected from people having died in a hospital / hospice / asylum etc. Usually those bones belong(ed) to an unknown person, at least we cannot ascribe to that person any real name, dates of life and place.

Regards

Maciej

Dear Maciej! Thank for your support and for further clarification for Niazur!

Whenever you are not from newspaper's surrealism draw yourself a real science, and begin to work with the remains of human, you have painful ethical issues. And they are much more painful, than itchy misinterpretation of commentators and journalists, and of specialists around them - of English teachers.

I think this is a very relevant issue and one that is not getting as much discussion as it deserves. I too see the double standard that you describe between “righteous” museums and “sleazy” traveling shows.

I am involved in forensic facial approximation research work in my university. To attempt a reconstruction and work on skull obtained from anatomy deptt is almost impossible. Thus skull is replicated 3D or in resin /POP.

Instead of heated discussion, I request stalwarts to give first hand experiences.

with loads of respect and inspiration

AC