Hello ,

The philosopher Socrates said that we have to persuade old and young to care for the soul and virtue . We can build a building or a bridge within the limits of minimum security requirements and standards required , save using inferior materials ( l0l 'm not an engineer so excuse me examples of child ) . Maybe this kind of ethical dilemma can be used in discussions with students or case studies .

Socrates knew that ethics requires a different type of learning . And universal human values ​​such as ethics are not acquired by mere transmission of information or knowledge . Neither is a practical thing that can be gained by training, but must be "born " within each human being from solid social principles .

Ethical principles are internalized by individuals, not only seized . There is a saying that the best way to teach is by example .

But how to "teach " ethics in a corrupt society that destroys the planet and kills every day in war spending thousands of dollars on weapons and leaving millions of people starving around the world ?

What do we gain being ethical ? This is also a good issue to discuss with students .

It is certainly a breakthrough gentlemen wish that in the course of you . I think however , that ethics , discussion can be extended even beyond the practice of engineering and social role each of us can and should play in society in which we live . What kind of business we want to be ? What kind of business should we be? What kind of person can and should be ? What kind of values ​​we can cultivate in ourselves and the society we live in ?

Maybe a discipline case study of ethical dilemmas in the profession of engineer could be part of the curriculum .

Congratulations on your initiative.

That's what occurred to me at that time .

Let's talk ...

Regards,

S.

Hello ,

The philosopher Socrates said that we have to persuade old and young to care for the soul and virtue . We can build a building or a bridge within the limits of minimum security requirements and standards required , save using inferior materials ( l0l 'm not an engineer so excuse me examples of child ) . Maybe this kind of ethical dilemma can be used in discussions with students or case studies .

Socrates knew that ethics requires a different type of learning . And universal human values ​​such as ethics are not acquired by mere transmission of information or knowledge . Neither is a practical thing that can be gained by training, but must be "born " within each human being from solid social principles .

Ethical principles are internalized by individuals, not only seized . There is a saying that the best way to teach is by example .

But how to "teach " ethics in a corrupt society that destroys the planet and kills every day in war spending thousands of dollars on weapons and leaving millions of people starving around the world ?

What do we gain being ethical ? This is also a good issue to discuss with students .

It is certainly a breakthrough gentlemen wish that in the course of you . I think however , that ethics , discussion can be extended even beyond the practice of engineering and social role each of us can and should play in society in which we live . What kind of business we want to be ? What kind of business should we be? What kind of person can and should be ? What kind of values ​​we can cultivate in ourselves and the society we live in ?

Maybe a discipline case study of ethical dilemmas in the profession of engineer could be part of the curriculum .

Congratulations on your initiative.

That's what occurred to me at that time .

Let's talk ...

Regards,

S.

One of the research questions that we are investigating is how to inculcate good values and ethics while teaching different science/engineering subjects; with the hope that students will practice them in their daily life.

Dear Ahmad Faris Ismail,

Today, after attending this initial conversation searching the web for my work I found this video I share with you. It's about a professor who taught ethics from the Walking Dead game. Please enable english subtitle (if it is not activated) http://youtu.be/qsL47MlHMHw

I think the video can give some interesting clues that turn good ideas into you ...

I personally like to work, although it was with high school students, small theaters written by the students followed by discussions on ethical dilemmas involved in the story.

Regards,

S.

Ethics, in general, seems to be something that is more geared towards a Philosophy course. It has moral underpinnings, and you won't be able to teach that. Add in the case where individuals apply 'situational' ethics - meaning that their belief system is dependent on the predicament they are trying to solve.

At one time the ACM used self-assessments for members to evaluate themselves. The one I used to teach from was concerning ethics - http://home.messiah.edu/~chase/csc/_494/EricW1.pdf

That's exactly what we want to change. Instead of teaching ethics in philosophy and/or social science courses, can we infuse ethical values when teaching engineering/science course like chemistry or physics?

Dear @Jerrold (Jerry) , ethics will always be situational ... let me explain what I think . Ethics is the science which studies human behavior which manifests itself in situations of life and human activity.

For example : I am walking down the street and find a lost wallet filled with money a business card with the phone 's owner . What do I do ? I call the owner and get the money? This is an ethical situation. If I have a background in strong values ​​, I will return the wallet to the owner . In an experiment done here in Belo Horizonte , 60 % of the people returned the wallet, ie not always do what is right is the ethical choice of people in a situation .

Example 2 - I'm a university researcher and offered me a trip is a gift for me to adjust my research interests of a company in the chemical . I accept it or not ? It is a situation , an ethical dilemma posed to solve the subject from its scale of values ​​and principles .

In this sense ethics is always situational . Are situations that put us face ethical dilemmas and confront our scale of values ​​, principles and our social and personal beliefs .

That's how I see it.

I do not think ethics is one dedicated exclusively for a course in philosophy topic. Ethics should permeate our actions and everything we do must be considered ethically . The way our institutions work , what we do every day , how we behave with others and how we participate in the social life , daily pose situations that confront our values ​​and raise ethical dilemmas for us to solve .

Regards,

S.

Remember in teaching ethics, you are seeking an attitude change; not an increase in technical knowledge. Thus your teaching and assessment method must differ from teaching and assessing technical information.

Hello @ ian kennedy, very well remembered.

So another challenge for our friends at International Islamic University Malaysia. I'm sure they will reach a suitable model of both teaching and assessment.

I think it will be a great experience then to be reported and shared here.

Regards,

S.

@Sergio the two situations you present, are situational for sure - but not in manner I meant. English isn't always precise. In the two scenarios you present, I personally would a) return the wallet/money; and b) not change my research.

What makes b) more of the "situational ethics" I was implying is whether or not your response is consistent and *always* the same in that scenario. If you wouldn't alter your research for the chemical company, would you also *not* alter your research if an environmental group approached you?

Hello Jerry, ok I understood what you meant, though not sure if an ethical position is invariant as well, as you describe.

A truly ethical position should be the same in both situations you quoted.

But continuing our discussion, in order to help our friends at International Islamic University Malaysia, I think this might be a good ethical dilemma to discuss a case study.

1) if the interests of the chemical industry is developing a drug for a disease that is still incurable? l0l; 2) And if the interests of environmentalists, although justifiable, either you increase the natural impact that you originally described for the construction of a hydroelectric plant, for example? l0l

How to behave ethically in these two cases?

I think these two examples may serve to get students thinking from the position that you expressed and I will call here the invariance of ethics.

I think I'm advocating here the methodology of case study for our friends from Malaysia. This can lead to good discussions among students, especially when we change the perspective of the problem as exercised in the above examples, from the conversation with Jerry.

Jerry, you realized that your comment sparked a brain storm here in Brazil l0l. I do not know if I could go somewhere with this review.

Actually I'm still thinking about what you said as I write this l0l.

But maybe something to serve to our friends from Malaysia. I hope so.

Thank you for your consideration in talking with me.

Regards,

S.

Referring to teaching and assessment, we are interested on how to integrate them in the new curriculum, i.e. in addition to teaching and assessing the competencies in technical/science subjets, at the same time how to assess internalization of ethical values among students. Very challenging task indeed.

a quick google search 'university level ethics in science' found a Research Gate link to a published paper from 1995 by Penny J Gilmer in a journal called "Science and Engineering Ethics" http://tinyurl.com/n4z79vg - she discusses a course entitled "Science, Technology, and Society"

Good experience appears in this monograph although this in Spanish:

http://www.monografias.com/trabajos10/inmec/inmec.shtml

Hello @rolando serra toledo, Grateful for the shared text. I downloaded and am reading.

Regards,

S.

Thanks for the links to the relevant papers - I am sure it will be very useful for our research group.

Another issue is the need to include values and ethics outcomes in the Outcome Based Education system that is practised by many universities these days. How to specify the learning outcomes? How to teach them in the classrooms?How to assess whether the outcomes have been achieved?

@Ahmad: Since we would not be teaching content, we would have to assess how much the attitude of the students had changed.

Yes, it will not be pen and paper assessment. It will be more bahavioural and/or attitude assessment. This will be an excellent research project since we need to come up with reliable and valid assessement. any idea?

Hello ,

@ Ian , I agree with you. But how to evaluate such things . Values ​​and principles are glued in our soul . Perhaps our friends at IIUM have to be glad that this experience is like a father and a mother who educates their children . We teach values ​​and believe that our children are good people . I think it is easier ( or less difficult l0l ) think of a teaching proposal and how to develop it than thinking of a proposal to review the proposal so magnificent . Perhaps this " discipline " should be offered more as a bonus ( the cherry on the cake ) that will crown a successful course forming good engineers and beautiful people who think like just another discipline of the course .

I'm not so sure that my position . But I have strengthened that belief in me .

I wonder how this is heading discussion among friends of IIUM .

We will certainly have something to learn from them at the end of the experience that they will develop .

Greetings to all ,

S.

PS : On the way to school I think case studies and philosophical discussions are a good way , as I have outlined in other posts . These case studies can be presented in various formats : comics , theatrical productions , films made by the students themselves , in person or in chats , discussions etc...

@Ahmad / @Ian - while we're not teaching content, the best way to understand if the attitude (or values) have been altered at all may come from scenario testing. One way to measure would be to give a 'test' the first day of class covering multiple scenarios (similar to the ACM Self-Assessment that I mentioned in my first post), then give the same 'test' as the final exam.

There are 'accepted' answers, and you can see if the student has been able to successfully identify the issues in each scenario and how they would react. Then compare them to their original answers at the beginning of the semester. The only issue is whether or not the student changes their answer to the 'accepted' answer is whether they do so because their value system has been altered - or if it's because they know what answer is expected.

Case studies, scenario analysis, and problem based learning maybe adopted to impart values and ethics in the curriculum. It must also be made a requirement in the engineering design course.

We are also looking at a reliable and valid assessment for good character/attitude/perception/values among students.

Dear Ahmad Ismail,

Perhaps an assessment by teachers, peers and own self-assessment, taken throughout the course. The advantage I see in something like this is that such an assessment could strengthen in students the need to have a strong spirit and focused on important human values ​​that we should cultivate throughout our life and pass on to younger generations.

I think the program you will be unheard of in higher education. I would very certainly to track results that after a while being adopted.

Regards,

s.

Our challenge also is to train the engineering/science lecturers to include this assessment in their subjects. In addition to the traditional/normal course assessments, there is a need to assess values/ethical components. To be effective, small class size is more practical.

We hope that the product of this new integrated curriculum will contribute more positively in the betterment of the society.

Another motivation to conduct this project is to enhance the assessment of the academic program educational objectives. In the outcome based education (OBE), a few of the outcomes and/or program objectives, like ability for lifelong learning and ability to practice professional ethics, are difficult to be quantified. Hence, a new method of assessment which is reliable and valid needs to be developed.

One significant challenge in the progress of engineering, science, and technology is to ensure the sustainability of the society and minimize the negative impact to the environment. So, how the lecturers can instil the relevant values to the students?

This article just popped up on www.slashdot.org - gives some situations where ethical decisions have to be made by software developers: http://www.infoworld.com/d/application-development/12-ethical-dilemmas-gnawing-developers-today-240574

Yes, there are many ethical issues in the cyberspace; many of which are new problems facing the society. Unfortunately, existing legal provisions in many countries are not ready to handle this situation. Here is a good example why we need to instil good values and ethics in people using the technology.

Hello,

In a world where almost everything is thought can be built an ethics grounded in universal human values ​​is the only hope we have the foresight to we make the correct decisions. On the other hand, I think, delegate a function of such importance and order the software, even though these algorithms are "perfect," is give up our ability to decide our own lives and our own paths. Delegate that to a software certainly is an ethical dilemma that should be thoroughly discussed. Of course, I think the software can provide the bases, clues and information that can help us make decisions, but the final word must always be our (not just one person or a small group).

I think there is a good discussion for a course in ethics as what our friends UIIM provide students of engineering degree in the discipline of ethics.

Even more,

S.

I agree with Sérgio, very interesting answer!!

Yes, the software and hardware CANNOT replace "heart"ware- the human touch!

What do you think of the finding that "although the world technology has progressed so much, the basic human nature remains"? Hence, the need for human ethics and values to "control" the technology development?

Maybe some of you are interested in presenting their reserach on CSR and business ethics: between 2-3 Oct. 2014, the College of Management from NUPSPA in Bucharest and National Bank of Romania organizes a conference investigating the latest evolutions in business management generated by recent economic and financial crises. Special attention and a separate panel is dedicated to Business Ethics and CSR. More details are available on the conference website: www.strategica-conference.ro

Dear ahmad ismail,

All human actions must be under the scrutiny of ethics. How many billions we spend on weapons of mass destruction? How many are killed every day? What good is a technology at the service of the dogs of war and lords of the world? What good is all the technology in the world if we can not live in peace and respecting our differences? What good all technology when millions are hungry and deprived of basic human rights such as decent work and education? What's the point, really, our go to Mars and space probes unravel the immensity of the universe while leaving brothers died of starvation on several continents? How many basements even torture and mistreat people (sometimes more cruel than average age and previous eras of human history)? How many brothers die everyday for advocating a more just world? How many die because they do not yet understand that differences can coexist in the same space? How many die to keep a failed economic system and that is only good for a few (the usual suspects who always profit from the misery and ruin of the majority)? How many brothers die for our failed economic policies (whose theories are constructed disregarding the human component and from purely economic categories)? What are we teaching our children and youth? What we need to teach (really) to build a more just and equitable world? How many theories (economic, social, educational, etc.) are built beautifully modeled in theory and despising people and prioritizing categories of thought only?

The most serious is that the more we evolved technologically more shallow is our ability to reflect depth and breadth. We are very comfortable with our big dates and our processes of data mining. But even so, we are using it? To build wealth that are accumulated in the hands of less than two hundred corporations, as a recent study that mapped the routes of global wealth?

Governments and private groups that dominate the state apparatus know what we write, what we print on our printers, we keep the numbers in our notes, know our "secrets" which researched, we spoke with, know the content of our posts where we spend our money, what we read, what we access the web and use that information as they want and justify (ideologically, using political beliefs, spreading false ideas etc..) fabricating excuses and justifications sold, disseminated advertisements and official speeches, TV networks who are paid to do it too ...

The list is long, but I'll stop here.

Certainly the technological and social development must be at the point of ethics and human values ​​all the time. But how to build an ethical society with political, economic and social structure we have today? I think this is the key point ...

I think it's a good discussion for engineers and an engineering course, as you are planning. I would love to see it work ...

See you later,

S.

You have provided good arguments on the need of professional ethics and values in our graduates life after finishing school. We observe that today's education generally focus on the skills to support the existing system/industry which is based primarily on materialistic and/or individualistic paradigms. We really need to change this world view. What will be the ideal world view?

Dear ahmad ismail ,

Surely a vision of an ideal world should be focused on people and not on economic systems .

Economic systems must serve the people and not the reverse . A world in which inequalities between people is very large , can not be a good world . A world where people do not have access to basic human rights such as education , health, work and freedom ( the highest degree of individual liberties ) is also not a good world . A society in which prejudice ( race / color , ethnic , political and religious beliefs , preferences and individual tastes ) and intolerance are present is also not a good world .

An educational system can not prepare people for the industry and the only economic system.

Questions like this will bring social benefits to the most people ? This policy , invention , research, etc. , are really at the service of the community ? The sense of social justice, equity , freedom and tolerance is what should guide our projects and our sense of ethics ( which now only has meaning if it is human - for all people , of all places - and global - Worldwide ) .

Really like the words of Sathya Sai Baba : " There is only one caste, the caste of humanity , there is only one language, the language of the heart , there is only one religion , the religion of love , there is only one God and He is Omnipresent . " I think a good expression to guide our actions to build a better, more just and fraternal world.

The basic purpose of education people with high sense of social justice, ethics , in full possession of the rights of citizenship, free spirit of prejudice , injustice and intolerance should be prepared . A global ecosystem , as we are currently experiencing , the vision of ecological , social and economic sustainability must be the basis of the purpose of the educational system .

A fraternal embrace ,

S.

Your comment reminding me of the book "Excellence Without a Soul: How a Great University Forgot Education" by Harry Lewis. There is a dire need to revisit the noble objective of the university education.

So, how can we put the "soul" in our academic programs? Especially science, engineering, and technology related programs?

We are discussing how to provide more academic contents related to human being (behaviour, pyschology, sociology, political, etc. ) to engineering and science students; so that when they practise, they will not forget the human ethics and values in their design. However, the main challenge is the limited time they have for these types of inputs as they are overloaded with the more engineering and/or science technical contents.

One issue raised during our discussions in integrating human values and ethics in the curriculum is the debate of "broad" vs. "depth" in its contents/topics. Some argue that the "depth" is more important to make our students ready for market. Others articulate that broad-based education is more important ofr our graduates to contribute more positively in the society. So, how to strike the balance between the two views?

Dear Ahmad,

This is the problem of our time and is a real contradiction of the information society, in my opinion. At the same time we live in a time where information is abundantly available and easily (compared to other times) the time devoted to discussion and philosophical reflection is almost nil and is restricted to specific centers dedicated to the area of ​​philosophy. When we read Socrates or Plato, for example, is very easy to see how much they dipped (depth) in the examined subjects. It is easy to realize that they devoted a great time to do so. But today we do not have that time. So what good is accumulating knowledge we do not discuss our assumptions ...

It is important to understand this issue. Thinking takes time l0l. Thinking requires discuss, expose our opinions, review points, resume positions, deepening levels of understanding etc ...

You'll need to find a point of inflection.

Breadth without depth can lead you to form professionals with extensive technical expertise, but without ethics and without human commitments in his way of acting. Doctors who perform illegal procedures, engineers working at the lower limit of safety requirements. But then we respond to families when a mine collapses over the heads of workers (for lack of adequate safety standards and unobserved) killing parents, zealous youth, people with a lifetime to build and were discontinued ... Here in Belo Horizonte in 1970 a great work collapsed and killed dozens of workers trapped by simple carelessness and non-compliance with technical standards within appropriate levels.

On the other hand, without specific technical knowledge and ability not form professional with broad technical and knowingly.

I think there is a chance to achieve success if you start doing that from the beginning of the course and throughout the course, as a transdisciplinary when accompanying students throughout the course. This need not necessarily be offered as a "new discipline, course or chair." The philosophical discussion can be taken across by each teacher along with the specific content in their own time for this. I think the transdisciplinary approach in this case can be extremely useful.

The time must be the greatest ally of yours. The time course of the student, his stay in the institution. Every second it must be permeated by ethical discussion and this can be done by every teacher within their discipline, can be done at specific times also drawing attention to the ethical dimension at work. Consider for example (it's a quick thinking). If each teacher, each specific discipline discuss two cases (involving ethical discussion) with students throughout their course, how many cases students will have discussed the end of the course? We can add to that specific even to the end of the semester, for example event. May have activities involving technological features too ...

Do not think of it as a discipline more. A problem of ethics is to teach it theoretically does not give much result. This has to be absorbed thoroughly and nothing better to use the influence of good teachers to form these values ​​in students. Do not think of it as a chair the most, how to call a teacher more, to give more discipline. Think of it as fluidly as a translucent "smoke" that will pierce the mind and hearts of the students. Try doing something that touches their hearts. Ethics is the place of the heart. Technical knowledge is the place of the head and brain. But ethics is the place the feeling of affection for the similar on the other. It is the place of care with each other, with other people. It is the place of love ... Do not try to "teach" ethics. It will not work. Cultivate ethics in students. Sow ethics in the hearts of students. I really like stories. They teach a lot. Great teachers used stories to teach. I also like questions and long conversations and lengthy discussions. I like the idea contained in koan Zen Buddhist teaching and philosophy that they contain. I also like the Greek idea of ​​a site dedicated to the discussion and exchange of ideas and the ideas contained in the Socratic concept of Maieutics. Ethics is a value to be built, a feeling that students will have to develop. Then, move with their hearts, with their feelings, with your opinion, how to be and behave like people, citizens, husbands and wives, boyfriends, sons ...

I think these elements are most suitable for what you are trying to build in IIUM.

Receive my compliments and admiration to you for what you are trying to do.

A fraternal embrace of Brazil,

S.

-

PS: Please forgive me the audacity (and my bad english, mostly) to direct me well to you in a post so long but really, the formulation of you has a great affection on my part and I'm rooting for you to have by far much success :)

Dear Sergio,

Thanks for the good articulation on the subjects. I guess one of the problems facing the humanity is the lack of awareness and understanding of the purpose of life itself. People need to rediscover their mission and responsibilities in this world. Many times, people see the world only from the materialistic and/or physical point of view. Hence, the need for philosophy of life, and discussion on values and ethics.

And we regards to science, engineering and technology, we also need to revisit the the philosophy of science, engineering and technology; as to ensure that it is in line with the true human needs, values and ethics.

In most engineering program objectives, we find that the graduates must attain certain level of professional ethics. But, how to measure this?

Dear Ahmad ,

It really is a difficult and very hard question to face . Also not sure if the ethical development gives to be evaluated in the traditional sense .

What occurred to me is that if students are accustomed ( from the beginning of the course ) to assess students as ethically perhaps this contributes to them to become professionals who care about such issues.

So my first idea is that students self - assess their behavior in ethically students ever since . I do not know how to do this because there is certainly a tendency to answer such questions of how the evaluators expect us to respond . Then it will be a challenge!

A self-assessment without identification, but it is possible for the institution to measure the ethical behavior of students in general?

A self-assessment in which students do not have to give back to the institution , but that is only a guide so they can reflect on their ethical behavior ?

Another idea could be a reviews in small groups of students in which are some questions to guide the discussion where each student assesses and evaluates the other group members (maximum about 5 students per group , and they study together and know each other ) .

You can use the methodology of case study, from cases involving ethical values ​​that you wish to see in students. The responses of students on how to behave in a certain situation where it could serve as a basis for you to evaluate the ethical behavior of students . But if they know that they are being evaluated may also answer what you want to hear ... This could be used without them knowing they are having their assessed ethical behavior ( but not sure if it would be ethical ) .

Evaluate it from a discipline that would run the entire course ... maybe something like philosophy of science , engineering and technology ...

I particularly like the idea of ​​more self-evaluation group ... I think it very beneficial . Maybe this review is not counted as " score " to pass the course ...

This is what happened to me .

A fraternal embrace ,

S.

If I get your point correctly, there is a need for multi-dimensional forms of assessments; and there is a need to develop new sets of assessments that are reliable and valid.

Dear ahmad,

It was a bit of that I tried to discuss in my post. Does a review of the ethical behavior of students fall within the rigor of quantitative methods of evaluation?

I think in this case I'm tending towards the use of a qualitative tool that gives more clues about their behavior ...

See you later,

S.

PS:I also did a little editing on the 5th paragraph of my previous post. As it was, the translation from Portuguese into English was very bad ... l0l

My undergraduate alma mater now offers a course on ethics,

CSCE 390: Professional Issues in Computer Science and Engineering

(http://www.cse.sc.edu/class/390)

which meets the University wide "Values, Ethics, and Social Responsibility" requirement. Whether such can be used as a model for other institutions, I don't know - nor do I know if a one (1) credit hour course is sufficient to instill the ethics that we have been discussing.

Yes, there is a general trend now to include one course to discuss the professional ethical issues in engineering. This is a good start. But, as you correctly mention, whether this is adequate to produce long-lasting ethical professionals that work in the society.

I would suggest the following.

i) collect sufficient facts that strongly suggest about the existence of GOD. For e.g. the birth & growth of human beings & its comparison with even the most sophisticated machines ever made.

Through minute observations & analysis the probability of creation & sustenance of life IN THE ABSENCE OF A CREATOR would come out to be negligibly small. So, there is a creator.

Now, what to do next? The kindness(nature of helping others at the cost of one's own interests) present in the nature suggests that the GOD must be kind.

If the GOD is kind then He must believe in justice for everyone. But we see that many of the living beings don't get justice in life. So, the concept of a life HEREAFTER seems logical.

ii) Ask them that would it be possible to live and do even day to day works if the elements of nature have not been following FIXED course of actions(Newton's laws, Kelvin-Plank laws etc) that have formed the basis of sustained life.

So, won't it be the best practice for human beings to follow PERMANENT VALUES.

If u look for permanent values, RELIGION comes into picture. Which religion to follow?

Go for COMPARATIVE RELIGION studies....

iii) Some philosophers condemn religion saying that everything in the world changes so Religion (that is a fixed code) is not logical. this foolish idea is a fraud according to its own existence : If u say THERE IS NO TRUTH, EVERYTHING CHANGES, THEN IT IMPLIES THAT THIS IDEA(THAT NOTHING IS A PERMANENT TRUTH) IS ITSELF LIABLE TO CHANGE. So, everyone is free to assume that this idea had changed when his religion came to the WORLD.....

We need to revisit and compare the philosophy of science and technology from different perspectives. The science and technology must be integrated with values and ethics.