Dear Linas,

I think that legislating professional ethics in areas such as zoology is always a bad idea, therefore I am definitely against 'banning' snap-trapping or, for that matter, any collection protocol for purely 'ethical' reasons. This would be especially hypocritical if snap trapping remains the main tool for pest rodent eradication in commercial and household applications. It should be the personal (and informed!) choice of the researcher which collecting method to use - not a bureaucratic directive driven by animal-rights agendas.

Personally, I see many disadvantages in using snap traps in research collecting. To name a few: high risk of damage to the skull, specimen decomposition/ DNA degradation and possible damage by ants, slugs and scavengers (not good for preserving a collection specimen), 'abandonment' by ectoparasites (loss of potentially valuable ecological information), and over-sampling of the most abundant or 'by-catch' species that could have been released if live-trapped.

Finally, I have inadvertently witnessed, on several occasions, what happens to a rodent that has just been 'snapped' across the back (they can be fully conscious and agonize for minutes), therefore it has been my personal choice to avoid snap trapping whenever possible, despite the compactness and convenience of setting snap traps versus Longworths or pitfalls. Euthanasia on an as-needed basis is logistically more cumbersome but yields better quality material. Shrew mortality in live traps can be reduced dramatically with addition of dry bedding and moist cat food. Anyways, here are my two cents...

Hi, Lynas!

Glad to see you on the web!

I agree that the snap-traps and have the "+" and "-".

I think that the damage to populations caused by the activities of mammalogists nothing compared to the mining, metallurgical, chemical, agricultural (continue the list...) activity!

In some cases, snap-traps more convenient, and easier to analyze the data! Look in the application. (I hope you're still reading by Russian :-)

L.B.: "Do you think using snap-traps (killing mouse traps) should be fobidden in small mammal research?"

endemic or wide-spread ones?

Of course I was talking not about threatened and endemoc species! Just ordinary small mammal composition, mostly commom and widespread species.

L.B.: "Just ordinary small mammal composition, mostly commom and widespread species"

ok, so you have a problem related to mice...

are You specialised in Rodentia or Insectivora?

both, and even more - in this case I am asking about killing traps, which trap shrews, mice and voles. Rarely dormice also are trapped.

dear Ivan, I easily read and speak Russian. But what application you are talking about? I found no attachments in your answer.

Hi Linas I know you already have an email from me when we were discussing snap traps last week as I wasn't sure what they were. I have strong feelings about killing any animals in the name of research. I work in the area of mammal conservation and have spent 23 years running (in my spare time) a rescue centre for hedgehogs. It is heart breaking when they come in with serious leg injuries having been caught in snap traps put down to catch rats. I feel that the best option is always to use a live traps, identify, weigh, assess the small mammal and then release it immediately where it has been found.

Hello Toni, in my over 40 years of experience of small mammal trapping with both snap traps and live traps, and out of these over 35 years are professional, I newer got a hedgehog trapped. Other than mice, rats, voles and shrews were 2 moles and one dormouse, thats all. I newer made counts, but only few animals were leg-trapped. If tail-trapped, then ot can be released.

I think, situation depend on the size of snap-trap; we use quite small ones, otherwise shrews are not trapped.

Also, not all small mammals are easily identified alive.

My question to all researchers who use snap traps: what size they are, wooden, plastic or metal?

... wooden ST. Live traps - wooden to.

... Live traps

...Oops

Not stuck

? Well, not embedded pdf! again!

For shrews and ermine with two-time checking per day, live-traps act as "death traps"!

Hello all. Wooden killing traps looks the same as we use in Lithuania, live traps - quite similar. we also use vire mesh live traps, sorry, have no picture at a moment.

Http://vesti-yamal.ru/ru/vjesti_jamal/chjem_zavjershitsja_mjezhdunarodnyj_projekt_po_izuchjeniju_jamalskoj_populjacii_sokola_sapsana26119

http://vesti-yamal.ru/ru/vjesti_jamal/chjem_zavjershitsja_mjezhdunarodnyj_projekt_po_izuchjeniju_jamalskoj_populjacii_sokola_sapsana26119

Trap no 56 - I just on the first sign though it is mine !!

Dear Linas,

I think that legislating professional ethics in areas such as zoology is always a bad idea, therefore I am definitely against 'banning' snap-trapping or, for that matter, any collection protocol for purely 'ethical' reasons. This would be especially hypocritical if snap trapping remains the main tool for pest rodent eradication in commercial and household applications. It should be the personal (and informed!) choice of the researcher which collecting method to use - not a bureaucratic directive driven by animal-rights agendas.

Personally, I see many disadvantages in using snap traps in research collecting. To name a few: high risk of damage to the skull, specimen decomposition/ DNA degradation and possible damage by ants, slugs and scavengers (not good for preserving a collection specimen), 'abandonment' by ectoparasites (loss of potentially valuable ecological information), and over-sampling of the most abundant or 'by-catch' species that could have been released if live-trapped.

Finally, I have inadvertently witnessed, on several occasions, what happens to a rodent that has just been 'snapped' across the back (they can be fully conscious and agonize for minutes), therefore it has been my personal choice to avoid snap trapping whenever possible, despite the compactness and convenience of setting snap traps versus Longworths or pitfalls. Euthanasia on an as-needed basis is logistically more cumbersome but yields better quality material. Shrew mortality in live traps can be reduced dramatically with addition of dry bedding and moist cat food. Anyways, here are my two cents...

I think a lot depends on what the purpose/objective is. For example, if its merely to take a census, a game camera can be even better, as the ones that would have ran when mickey got snapped are also "captured" in the video.

If its to gather specimens, I agree with the pros and cons listed above...in that its inexpensive, provides a quick and painless death, albeit is potentially a painful way to go when the mouse is, ironically, almost able to escape, and, potentially, it compromises the integrity of the sample itself.

Live trapping at least allows release of non-target species, and allows potentially better preservation of the specimens.

Scores of snap traps are in use in homes and businesses across the world as a simple inexpensive pest control measure...as mentioned above, so, morally, I don't see doing it for research as worse than as pest control.

If banned for pest control, then I could see it being a problem for research as well.

In contrast, a study at the University of Nebraska indicated that snap traps are actually one of the more humane traps available, as they typically provide a quicker death, and the Humane Society of the United States is actually currently campaigning against Glue Boards, not snap traps, as inhumane.

I appreciate your point of view!

HI all, interesting discussion. I personally believe that whatever we do, when it comes to lethal trapping, our research questions have to be meaningful to justify our approach. Moreover, we should share our samples as much as we can with other researchers for secondary research purposes, to give more value to the killing of these small creatures.

Beside that, I have a question. I am having problems finding alternatives to forestry supplies for purchasing small rodent snap traps. They are not robust enough and they do not last (not to mention the misfire rate). Do you have any tip on where I could find decent snaps trap at a decent price?

thanks

Ale

Have you thought of using live traps Alessandro? Once you have obtained the information you need you can then release the animal back where it came from.

I think that forbidding something implies that there could never be a justified use for it.

Alessandro, snap traps you should buy in Russia or East Europe :)

How many of them you need?

It depends on the price, but it might be from a minimum of 100 to a max of 400.

OK, in Monday I may check supplier and send you a link

I am for using the live traps, owl pellets, cameras... living better than death

snap trapping is equally important as other trapping techniques used. I am working on the food habits of rodents and use snap traps. if live trap used then its food analysis can get biased because of the bait animal has eaten. so for research work like food habit analysis, snap trapping is more useful.

Surryia, I consider it to be wholly unsatisfactory to kill these animals purely to establish what they have been eating. It is standard practice to analyse the faeces of animals instead and I would strongly recommend that you do this. The use of snap traps, for the purpose you describe, is not good science and is unnecessary.

Toni, food habits is single aspect of my work along with this other things have to be studied that require animals autopsy ( like reproductive pattern- ovaries, testis conditon, placental scars, embryo status etc ).that's why I must have to kill the animals.

me too. Right now we are trapping with live traps, trying to get repeated trappings, but in the mothr for sure we will snap-trap. Because we need to get reproductive history (embryo, placental scars, number of litters). And I am sure, snap traps are more effective than live traps. sorry about this

Surrya, you might like to have a look at the work being carried out by Ana Pino-Blanco who uses faecal pellet analysis for diet inference.

In the time period we, three persons, set 100 livetraps, two persons could be able to set ca 300 snap-traps. I still am sure snap-traps are more effective.