Dear Ismat,

As I can see, besides scientific problems you solve problems of organization in the educational process as well. It was interesting to me to become familiar with your educational approach since, in Bulgaria, we have similar problems as in the developing countries. I hope my answer to the questionnaire will be useful for you.

Regards, Cyril

Thank you Cyril for sending me the questionnaire. Thanks also for Abdulkadir AlKali/ Ottawa who sent it as well. I will share the results on researchgate as per request of Abdulkadir. Waiting for more contributions with thanks @AlDmour

Such questions are raised in many forums for different reasons. There are two aspects -- using computer engineering as a skill to enhance work in some other area (like civil engg, petroleum engg, etc), and using computer engineering as a domain on its own. As a domain, we should not create vast deviation from what is being followed world over. I am not sure of the funnel model either -- the initial subjects (phy, maths, etc) are general foundations for all engineering, not just computer. A look at the studies/reports from ACM will be valuable; they have classified different perspectives of computer technology (information systems, information technology, computer science, computer technology, etc) and related them to each other. There are core concepts of computing, which should not be compromised for any computer engineer. A number of topics are like electives, which most universities offer as choices depending on various constraints. This pool can be moderated as per local/community/country/etc need. If you look at this way, the current structure is quite flexible for everyone.

When computer technology is used as a supporting discpline (e.g. bioinformatics, civil engineering, mechanical engineering, etc) the focus is purely from a user perspective. One is not expected to be a computer engineer here, but to help use this technology for the specific domain. One can argue that a general computer engineer has a role here also -- he can understand/visualise newer possibilities to help the field, for example. In this case, the focus is on the specific domain of interest, and a few topics of computer engineering that is of particular importance to that field (e.g. high end simulation and modelling) is selected. These, along with relevant pre-requisites form the computer courses for that discpline.

Thank you Sasikumar for the valuable comments above. In your comments you say "One is not expected to be a computer engineer here, but to help use this technology for the specific domain". This is in full agreement with the problem described in my suggestion. First, the problem of that computer engineers will, especially in developing countries, not apply their high tech knowledge in the field of computer engineering in their work area. Saying it otherwise, most industries in developing countries don't require the service of a computer engineer (but rather the service of what you called him yourself after that a "General Computer Engineer". Saying also that it is required from him " to help use this technology for the specific domain" is also in agreement with with the approach; i.e. to prepare computer engineers to be able to help these industries through what I called in the article technology expansion (TE).

In TE approach suggested, courses toward final year shall include courses that introduce the technology to the students and ways computer engineering is utilized in the technology. A second constitute is a set of core computer engineering courses that are mostly related to the technology itself. A third constitute can be ingredients that may bring computer engineering know how in solving the technology wide area problems; e.g. the final year project and an open course of “Selected Topics in Computer Engineering and Technology of …”. Moreover, work ethics, communication skills, team-working, and other competency skills that are usually acquired from project course may be now re-designed with applications in the technology area itself.

The previous paragraph was added to the article and re-attached to make the model cleared (I agree with you that it is not clear in the last copy as I was shortening the article). You are right that we have to have computer engineering as a domain (on its own). Communities has to determine the numbers who go into this track. Moreover, this can be treated as a TE/Technology expansion option by itself as part of the TE options in the model itself. To clarify, in the model foundation courses from other disciplines and basic computer engineering courses shall remain intact. It is only that "concentration" courses in final year, which you called "electives", are to be replaced by technology expansion courses as described above. Concentration will make engineers even more stranger to the general technology they support but expansion will create strong ties with a specific domain and help give support to that domain and even to other domains as he is acquainted to the approach. ACM guidelines for curricula in different computing domain is a good start in any case. The basic criticism to their curricula approach is that no provision is made to how the computer engineer shall be able to use his skills to enhance work in other disciplines (I am using your words). Though they (ACM computing curricula report 2005) define computer engineering as "science and technology of design, construction, implementation, and maintenance of software and hardware components of modern computing systems and computer-controlled equipment" you find that in their defined tasks table for computer engineering that mostly design tasks are ranked higher than installation/ maintenance/ upgrade/ system engineering/ system configuration,...etc which are the kind of tasks most computer engineers are expected to tackle. Thanks again Sasikumar. I appreciate. Can you help more by answering the including questionnaire. Thanks. @AlDmour.

I accidentally deleted the attached file to my question above but the system does not allow my to upload it back. I attached it here again.Thanks @AlDmour.

I am not restricting myself to the Questioniare given.

In my View not only for Computer Engineering,but for any Domain in Engineering I prefer to have one Procedural Language,one Object Oriented Language,One R.D.B.M.S S/W.,Matlab, Domain Oriented S/W Packages -one or two, UML to prepare and present Documentation,Sufficient Analog and Digital Electronics,,Basics of Communication ,,Electrical and Mechanical Engineering Service Courses,Adequate Domain Knowledge Subjects,Electrical and Electronic Measurements,Instrumentation, and Modern Control Theory.

Mathematics,Physics,and Chemistry.

English CommunicationSkills,Economics,Accountancy and Management,Statistics,Random Variables and Stochastic Systems,Optimization Techniques.

Sufficient stress on Relevant Laboratories,Information Technology including workshop,Knowledge of Concerned Act and Rules,concerned Design and Codes.Ethics,Environmental and Behavioural Science is important to maintain Honesty and Integrity.

There is no need to have both Old and Modern Contents.Let us go only for Modern Developments which are in vogue now so that burden on the student can be reduced and there can be less stress.

Seminars on General and Technical topics,,General and Technical Paper Presentation should be encouraged.

Tutorials on Subjects must be held to encourage Problem Solving Skill.

Of Course. Guest Lectures,Audio Visual Education, e Learning and Self learning through Internet have to be provided.

Educational and Sight seeing Tours are to be arranged.

Mini and Main Projects may be Oriented towards the Local Community Needs and need not be Highly Theoretical or useful only to the Developed World.Projects have to be done sincerely by the students with the Guiance of the Faculty.

Last but not the least, Faculty Student Interaction is to be encouraged to know about the latest Developments,Career Opportunities and Actual Field Environment.This will create interes and Enthsism in the student who want to know what are teir Prospects After Graduation.

Regular Campus Placements should be arranged.

I hope, these steps may encourage students to show more and purposeful interest in Engineering Education.

P.S.

Thank you Pisupati. In your comment you put the outlines for an interactive curriculum structure with all the basic elements and elements with which the students get involved in general activities which encourages their education. I noticed also that you didnot include concentration courses (electives) which is in line with the basic suggested approach of replacing concentration courses with technology expansion courses (TE). TE in this sense is a method of expanding the students' horizon on to a wide technology area in which he/she can apply his basic engineering knowledge and be introduced to the wide technology area and the overlapping between the two domains (Comp. eng and the technology itself). Project works, guest lectures, visits,...etc plus a formal courses that introduce the technology and its interaction with comp. engineering. In any case I am still interested in receiving your answers with many.Thanks.@AlDmour

Electives,as pointed out by you,are really useful for obtaining advanced knowledge in their Domain and my suggestion of adequate Domain Knowledge should include Electives indeed.

You may call it Interactive Curriculum,but I feel that a knowledge of these Other Domain Subjects is essential,because I found lack of it to be a handicap not only for Projects,but for understanding Advanced Subjects like Power System Optimization,Power System Control and Stability etc.

Computer Methods have percolated in every Domain.

That is why Jawaharlal Nehru Technological University of Andhra Pradesh prescribed a minimum of four computer Oriented Courses for all Branches of Engineering.

Without Statistical methods there can be no Useful Research.

As we go on discussing we may get an outline for a Really useful Curricula for All Domains,just as in Hindu Mythology Amrutham(Nectar) was obtained when the Milky Ocean was churned and churned.

P.S.

Pisupati, I liked your analogy in the final paragraph. Nectar can be obtained when things are really discussed. Otherwise, education systems outputs may continue to be derailed away from the track of serving the actual communities needs. Thanks for your effective contribution.@AlDmour.

I received the following interesting (opposing) point of view from Dr. Neeraj Magorta / Chair, Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering/ Western New England University / USA. I am sharing his view (with his consent) together with my reply to him in order to motivate the discussion.

Neeraj Magorta :

"Based on the abstract I totally disagree w/ the authors premise/s. I spent ~10 years full-time within the embedded systems industry & continue to be involved part-time w/ my medical devices start-up. Of my full-time tenure at Texas Instruments (a semiconductor industry) I did not hire a single CPE graduate w/ ‘semiconductor manufacturing’ degree/background. We had a relatively small semiconductor research team (w/ MS & PhDs) and then obviously a LARGE semiconductor technicians ( NOT CPE graduates) workforce. All our engineers were EEs or CPEs or CS graduates w/ a broad technical background – particularly at the UG level

· I TOTALLY disagree w/ the first comment < Computer engineering is a discipline that best serves high tech semiconductors manufacturing>. I am an ABET PEV and intimately familiar w/ the latest ABET guidelines for CPE programs & they are extremely broad. They let you tailor your CPE program for YOUR customer’s (i.e. entities that employ your UG product – companies, grad. Schools etc.) needs. I know of very few CPE programs that, particularly at the UG level, even have more than 1 course on semiconductor physics etc.. A few schools, particularly w/ a strong graduate focus on nanotechnologies etc. might have a UG track/concentration in the semiconductor area. By and large CPE programs now tend to focus on embedded systems, networking solutions w/ a core hardware focus. Skills that are extremely valuable to a whole host of industries, including semiconductor manufacturing. For example, developing countries are building out their infrastructure and could use embedded systems & networking & s/w engineers by the droves. See India & China as examples.

· I also disagree w/ the second comment (SFM directs the students to core computer engineering courses or courses in a specific concentration area). In a 4 year UG program in the CPE area, given the rapid pace at which new techniques/technologies etc. are exploding in this field, there is not a whole lot of ‘funneling’ you can do at the UG level – single, dual, triple etc. etc. !"

That was Neeraj's comment. My reply to him is given in the next comment as this is becoming a large comment.

The following was my reply to the comments by Neeraj Magorta/ USA that I quoted in the above comment: "Thank you Neeraj. It is nice to have this opposition. Generally, this is merely an idea for future direction any where in developing communities and Saudi Arabia is taken as an example. Generally, engineers, not only computer engineers, in developing countries might get involved in issues beyond engineering ( one university in the US has "engineering for developing communities" under and graduate programs). Computer engineers are not away from that as well. Computer engineers have been offered in some universities (even in US) a concentration which involves other disciplines (e.g Environment/ Nano Technology,...etc), This is similar to the Technology expansion idea presented. Most replies from colleagues in developing world so far assured the existence of such gap between what is being offered and what is utilized in work place. May be we need to remember that the tasks ranked 5 or 4 in ACM curriculum recommendation for CpE are mainly Design (VLSI chip,computer,...etc) tasks that are irrelevant to current industry situation in many developing communities. Yes, countries like china and India and other countries are heading toward high Tech, but let us say that more room is still available for Cp engineers who get involved in other industries so they need to know their way to better utilize their basic Cp Engineering skills/knowledge to support these technologies... Therefore, it is necessary that ACM/ABET allow for other curricula approaches - as alternatives- when appropriate. I think that the way the students are prepared to work are generally not appropriate especially in developing communities as work requirements are different.". Thanks.@AlDmour

As Prof.Ismat Aldmour has stated Computers and Computer Application has pervaded into all Fields and a Basic Knowledge of Computer Programming,Relevant Application S/W and Particularly a basic knowledge of I.T. is important for any Engineer.

Design of VLSI Chips.Semiconductor Manufacture etc, are Specialized Fields and can be Electives.

I agree with the statement,"developing countries are building out their infrastructure and could use embedded systems & networking & s/w engineers by the droves", made by Prof.Ismat Aldmour.

The issue of producing Readily Employable Engineers by the Universities is simply not Possible because the requirements of Different Industries are different.One cannot be trained in all the areas in the short duration of the course.It is possible only if the Industries identify their prospective Recruits in advance and ask for the Specific Training needed,in which case,those students can be given such training in their Prefinal and Final year Study, under Electives including Practicals in the Campus or in the concerned Industry.The Industry may give stipend to them and also provide Resource Persons( in many cases ) for such training. In General Industry has to provide necessary training to their Fresh Recruits according to their Requirements. This cannot be avoided.

Universities can at the best provide sufficient Basic Knowledge and Training in different areas of the Discipline.

P.S.

Thank you Pisupati. First, I must correct that the statement you are referring to above is made by Dr. Neeraj Magorta. I was only quoting him. He just joined researchgate and we may hear from him soon. Yes, you are right, the university can't graduate readily employable engineers for all areas. Only, again as you said, students in final year can have their elective courses (which has to be re-designed carefully) be focused to a certain technology area in addition to being introduced to that technology. This way we create/enhance the missing/weak interface between the academia and the work areas. We can look at this as a big exorcize/project work. It does not mean that the student shall be obliged to go to work in that particular field. He/she is already trained to deal with real world. This is similar to doing a final year project combining CpE knowledge to design an interface card for pharmaceutical m/c does not imply that he/she only can design this. You are right saying that links with the industry are necessary ones. In a recent ACM (2009) report on future of computing education much emphasis is put on "links with industry beyond recruiting", "Universities should be rewarded, not punished, for working with practitioners." and " use team teaching with academia and industry..". You may find this report on: http://www.acm.org/education/future-of-computing-education-summit/FoCES_web.pdf). Thanks.@AlDmour

Dears; as some of you faced difficulty in saving a pdf form with fields (received empty). I used Google documents to continue running the questionnaire. You can go to the following URL to submit your answers (also view the article from there) with thanks:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1t4u9MQrHgSFTOyM9p4zryWnZTxhA3ptOvorVMlHDnC4/viewform

Thanks.@AlDmour